Marine Gas Turbines

[peter fisher]

Hi

I have had a go at this a few times and failed, so here we go again. My name is Pete Fisher resident in the UK, I am part of a team that have been given a task as part of a University Course to study Material Sciences. I have a task of designing a powerplant and drive system for a Fast Patrol Boat. I am trying to locate on the Web sites that will help me understand Marine Gas Turbines for small Craft (40/50 feet) and Water Jet propulsion systems, ideally if this combination has ever been designed and implemented. Any of you chaps got any good Web sites you can point me at or even tell me what I am considering is unfeasible.

Regards
Pete

[Willallison]

At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless

[yipster]

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ngnsim.html
if it is not of help it may be fun to play with

found good links using the search button above http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and what a beauty this "little" ob is. link went but like more specs, roll's eh?

Engine: Allison Rolls Royce 250 Gas Turbine
Power: 320 hp @ 52,000 rpm
Output RPM: 6,000 rpm
Torque: 425 ft lbs @ 2,000 rpm
Compressor speed: 54,000 rpm
Fuel: Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A
Lubrication: Dry-sump/ 3.5 quarts turbine oil

[Ken Baker]

Peter,

Try contacting some of the maritime schools/colleges. I know Maine Maritime Academy in the US teaches operations courses on gas turbines so maybe some of the UK ones do as well. They may not be able to help with design info but maybe can point you in the right direction.

Good luck.

Ken

[ClarkT]

Search around for a paper by Dean Schleicher or Cardrock about Turbine installation in a Navy test boat. I'm pretty sure it was published by SNAME in the late 1990's.

[Tad]

Peter;

Frank Mulder Mulder Design is the expert on using gas turbines in high-speed yachts. Also Gary Grant in the USA, Gary Grant has done some work with smaller gas turbines. I believe the Finish Masmar 75J is aimed at just the type project you are looking at. The only place I can think of where gas turbines and waterjets are currently used is in high-speed cat passanger ferries in the far east. These are using Textron Lycoming turbines. Allison Gas Turbine is or was into some marine installations. Another name is Allen Industries Inc in Seattle, specialist in gas turbines starting with unlimited hydroplanes. I have an old Boating article on a Fountain 42' with a pair of RR Gnome H-1000s running through Mercruiser drives. Destriero was designed by Donald Blount, contact his office for info, three GE LM 1600s, almost 50,000 HP.

Good luck, Tad

[Willallison]

I have an old Boating article on a Fountain 42' with a pair of RR Gnome H-1000s running through Mercruiser drives

I too have an old article, from "Motorboat & Yachting" - this ones about a cat built by Howard Arneson, powered I think form memory by a turbine from a bell helicopter driving thru one of his surface drives....

[yipster]

Tad, i have some articles by Frank Mulder, good to bring him up but you left the "www" out, its: http://www.mulderdesign.nl/
as said before i also liked your writings, great stuff but where did it go?

[Tad]

Thanks Yip;

I fixed the links, but see I should have looked at the links further up the thread before jumping in. Small (relatively) gas turbines coupled to waterjets seems to be a rarity? I have no idea why, but look forward to finding out! Is it gear train problems, lack of availability, who knows?

So many interesting projects, and so little time.

I lost my previous site through foolishness on my part, but I will shortly have two new sites up and running. If you want a job done, get busy, so I'm learning html and building my own. Also I want to support the .ca registry, so it's to be tadroberts.ca and passagemakerlite.com I'll have something up there shortly.


Tad

[SailDesign]

Also look in Peter du Cane's book "High Speed Small Craft". Lots and LOTS of good info in there, both turbine and waterjet.

Steve

[Corpus Skipper]

powered I think form memory by a turbine from a bell helicopter

This is where your "marine" gas turbines will all be from, due to light weight. Avco-Lycoming T40-B engines are used by the Navy in LCACs (Landing Craft, Air Cushion). Larger ships are powered by General Electric LM (Land/Marine) 2500s, with Allison 501-K17/K34s for generation. The now decommissioned PHMs (hydrofoils) also used the LM 2500. None used jet propulsion, except for the PHMs diesel auxiliary engines for hull-born use (funny, huh?). Excellent propulsion choice, very reliable, but WAY expensive!!! Direct drive would be more efficient, but if draft is a concern, jet drive would be possible. These engines (except for the LM 2500) have a PTO on the compressor end and can easily be coupled to the drive system of your choice. By the way, I was a Navy Gas Turbine Systems Technician, so this info. is all good. Good luck!

[peter fisher]

Originally Posted by Willallison

At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless

Thanks for the reply, I have had a great response and some good advice.
thanks
pete

[peter fisher]

Originally Posted by Willallison

At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless

Will

Thanks for the response.
pete

[peter fisher]

Originally Posted by yipster

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ngnsim.html
if it is not of help it may be fun to play with

found good links using the search button above http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and what a beauty this "little" ob is. link went but like more specs, roll's eh?

Engine: Allison Rolls Royce 250 Gas Turbine
Power: 320 hp @ 52,000 rpm
Output RPM: 6,000 rpm
Torque: 425 ft lbs @ 2,000 rpm
Compressor speed: 54,000 rpm
Fuel: Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A
Lubrication: Dry-sump/ 3.5 quarts turbine oil

Hi thanks for the input, this all makes great reading and helps.
pete

[peter fisher]

Originally Posted by Ken Baker

Peter,

Try contacting some of the maritime schools/colleges. I know Maine Maritime Academy in the US teaches operations courses on gas turbines so maybe some of the UK ones do as well. They may not be able to help with design info but maybe can point you in the right direction.

Good luck.

Ken

Ken

Thanks for the input
cheers pete