Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors

Go Back   Boat Design Forums > Design > Propulsion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Most Recent Posts Gallery Images Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-29-2004, 10:31 AM
peter fisher peter fisher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 21
Location: UK England
Marine Gas Turbines

Hi

I have had a go at this a few times and failed, so here we go again. My name is Pete Fisher resident in the UK, I am part of a team that have been given a task as part of a University Course to study Material Sciences. I have a task of designing a powerplant and drive system for a Fast Patrol Boat. I am trying to locate on the Web sites that will help me understand Marine Gas Turbines for small Craft (40/50 feet) and Water Jet propulsion systems, ideally if this combination has ever been designed and implemented. Any of you chaps got any good Web sites you can point me at or even tell me what I am considering is unfeasible.

Regards
Pete
Reply With Quote


  #2  
Old 04-29-2004, 07:56 PM
Willallison's Avatar
Willallison Willallison is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Rep: 2369 Posts: 3,589
Location: Australia
At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless
__________________
Will
Imaginocean Yacht Design
Logic will get you from A to B... Imaginocean will take you everywhere else...
www.imaginocean.net
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-30-2004, 01:49 PM
yipster's Avatar
yipster yipster is offline
designer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Rep: 1148 Posts: 3,484
Location: netherlands
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ngnsim.html
if it is not of help it may be fun to play with

found good links using the search button above http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and what a beauty this "little" ob is. link went but like more specs, roll's eh?

Engine: Allison Rolls Royce 250 Gas Turbine
Power: 320 hp @ 52,000 rpm
Output RPM: 6,000 rpm
Torque: 425 ft lbs @ 2,000 rpm
Compressor speed: 54,000 rpm
Fuel: Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A
Lubrication: Dry-sump/ 3.5 quarts turbine oil

Last edited by yipster : 05-05-2004 at 01:16 PM. Reason: inserted new old links
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2004, 01:18 PM
Ken Baker Ken Baker is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 4
Location: North Carolina
Peter,

Try contacting some of the maritime schools/colleges. I know Maine Maritime Academy in the US teaches operations courses on gas turbines so maybe some of the UK ones do as well. They may not be able to help with design info but maybe can point you in the right direction.

Good luck.

Ken
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-06-2004, 01:02 PM
ClarkT ClarkT is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Rep: 31 Posts: 108
Location: New Orleans
Search around for a paper by Dean Schleicher or Cardrock about Turbine installation in a Navy test boat. I'm pretty sure it was published by SNAME in the late 1990's.
__________________
-ClarkT
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-06-2004, 03:53 PM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
Boat Designer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rep: 2215 Posts: 2,118
Location: Flattop Islands
Peter;

Frank Mulder Mulder Design is the expert on using gas turbines in high-speed yachts. Also Gary Grant in the USA, Gary Grant has done some work with smaller gas turbines. I believe the Finish Masmar 75J is aimed at just the type project you are looking at. The only place I can think of where gas turbines and waterjets are currently used is in high-speed cat passanger ferries in the far east. These are using Textron Lycoming turbines. Allison Gas Turbine is or was into some marine installations. Another name is Allen Industries Inc in Seattle, specialist in gas turbines starting with unlimited hydroplanes. I have an old Boating article on a Fountain 42' with a pair of RR Gnome H-1000s running through Mercruiser drives. Destriero was designed by Donald Blount, contact his office for info, three GE LM 1600s, almost 50,000 HP.

Good luck, Tad

Last edited by Tad : 05-07-2004 at 12:42 PM. Reason: address mistakes
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-06-2004, 07:07 PM
Willallison's Avatar
Willallison Willallison is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Rep: 2369 Posts: 3,589
Location: Australia
Quote:
I have an old Boating article on a Fountain 42' with a pair of RR Gnome H-1000s running through Mercruiser drives
I too have an old article, from "Motorboat & Yachting" - this ones about a cat built by Howard Arneson, powered I think form memory by a turbine from a bell helicopter driving thru one of his surface drives....
__________________
Will
Imaginocean Yacht Design
Logic will get you from A to B... Imaginocean will take you everywhere else...
www.imaginocean.net
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-07-2004, 09:43 AM
yipster's Avatar
yipster yipster is offline
designer
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Rep: 1148 Posts: 3,484
Location: netherlands
Tad, i have some articles by Frank Mulder, good to bring him up but you left the "www" out, its: http://www.mulderdesign.nl/
as said before i also liked your writings, great stuff but where did it go?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-07-2004, 01:11 PM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
Boat Designer
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Rep: 2215 Posts: 2,118
Location: Flattop Islands
Thanks Yip;

I fixed the links, but see I should have looked at the links further up the thread before jumping in. Small (relatively) gas turbines coupled to waterjets seems to be a rarity? I have no idea why, but look forward to finding out! Is it gear train problems, lack of availability, who knows?

So many interesting projects, and so little time.

I lost my previous site through foolishness on my part, but I will shortly have two new sites up and running. If you want a job done, get busy, so I'm learning html and building my own. Also I want to support the .ca registry, so it's to be tadroberts.ca and passagemakerlite.com I'll have something up there shortly.


Tad
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-08-2004, 01:36 PM
SailDesign's Avatar
SailDesign SailDesign is offline
Old Phart! Stay upwind..
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rep: 650 Posts: 1,805
Location: Jamestown, RI, USA
Also look in Peter du Cane's book "High Speed Small Craft". Lots and LOTS of good info in there, both turbine and waterjet.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-12-2004, 09:10 PM
Corpus Skipper's Avatar
Corpus Skipper Corpus Skipper is offline
Hopeless Boataholic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Rep: 173 Posts: 606
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Quote:
powered I think form memory by a turbine from a bell helicopter
This is where your "marine" gas turbines will all be from, due to light weight. Avco-Lycoming T40-B engines are used by the Navy in LCACs (Landing Craft, Air Cushion). Larger ships are powered by General Electric LM (Land/Marine) 2500s, with Allison 501-K17/K34s for generation. The now decommissioned PHMs (hydrofoils) also used the LM 2500. None used jet propulsion, except for the PHMs diesel auxiliary engines for hull-born use (funny, huh?). Excellent propulsion choice, very reliable, but WAY expensive!!! Direct drive would be more efficient, but if draft is a concern, jet drive would be possible. These engines (except for the LM 2500) have a PTO on the compressor end and can easily be coupled to the drive system of your choice. By the way, I was a Navy Gas Turbine Systems Technician, so this info. is all good. Good luck!
__________________
Craig Cavanaugh
Silver King Custom Marine
No shoes, no shirt, no problem!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-13-2004, 02:51 AM
peter fisher peter fisher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 21
Location: UK England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willallison
At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless

Thanks for the reply, I have had a great response and some good advice.
thanks
pete
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-13-2004, 02:52 AM
peter fisher peter fisher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 21
Location: UK England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willallison
At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless

Will

Thanks for the response.
pete
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-13-2004, 02:54 AM
peter fisher peter fisher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 21
Location: UK England
Quote:
Originally Posted by yipster
http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ngnsim.html
if it is not of help it may be fun to play with

found good links using the search button above http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...hlight=turbine
and what a beauty this "little" ob is. link went but like more specs, roll's eh?

Engine: Allison Rolls Royce 250 Gas Turbine
Power: 320 hp @ 52,000 rpm
Output RPM: 6,000 rpm
Torque: 425 ft lbs @ 2,000 rpm
Compressor speed: 54,000 rpm
Fuel: Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A
Lubrication: Dry-sump/ 3.5 quarts turbine oil
Hi thanks for the input, this all makes great reading and helps.
pete
Reply With Quote


  #15  
Old 05-13-2004, 02:54 AM
peter fisher peter fisher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Rep: 10 Posts: 21
Location: UK England
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Baker
Peter,

Try contacting some of the maritime schools/colleges. I know Maine Maritime Academy in the US teaches operations courses on gas turbines so maybe some of the UK ones do as well. They may not be able to help with design info but maybe can point you in the right direction.

Good luck.

Ken
Ken

Thanks for the input
cheers pete
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
College for Naval Architecture Archive Education 15 04-07-2008 01:42 PM
Westlawn School JCFARER Education 59 08-26-2006 07:34 PM
Gas vs. Diesel torque comparison Chuck Bates Propulsion 12 09-04-2005 10:25 PM
MISSION MARINE Looking For a Few Good People Mission Marine Services & Employment 0 11-15-2004 09:09 AM
mahogany marine plywood structure? blackspot Materials 13 10-06-2004 09:39 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2014 Boat Design Net