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  #61  
Old 12-18-2009, 06:33 AM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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  #62  
Old 12-18-2009, 06:40 AM
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troy2000 troy2000 is offline
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Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
There is hardly a older hat to find on the scene Sigurd!
We had bilgewater injection, in the commercial shipping in Germany, already in the 80ies! MTU, not known for low tech crap had a complete engine line (based on the 93) capable of 15% water in the emulsion. Came never to the market, issues, issues, problems, trouble.
All nice in the books and maybe on a Sunday afternoon in Bonneville.
In a boat or ship, nor worth talking, it is proven that it does NOT work reliable and troublefree.

Regards
Richard
They had water injection systems way back on WWII fighter planes. But it wasn't because the water became fuel, as I've had people claim (I'm sure you know better).

The fighters used superchargers to compress intake air, and the air heated as it compressed. So a squirt of water, or alcohol-water mix, was used to cool the air, thereby lowering cylinder temperatures and giving a temporary boost during combat maneuvers--particularly at high altitudes. It made for a more efficient burn, and prevented detonation ("knocking"). And I would imagine the humidified air also expanded better in the pistons during combustion to give more power, although I haven't had anyone tell me so.

The natural gas pumping station I work at has huge "air washers" about twelve feet across for each of its original old compressor engines (installed in 1948), for the same purpose. The intake air flows through a bed of marbles that are sprayed with water. If an air washer goes down, we can tell in the control room, because the monitored cylinder 'pyro's' (exhaust temps) on a unit go up, and the brake horsepower goes down.

But we aren't under any illusions that the water is actually being cracked and burned....
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  #63  
Old 12-18-2009, 07:15 AM
apex1
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Originally Posted by troy2000 View Post
They had water injection systems way back on WWII fighter planes. But it wasn't because the water became fuel, as I've had people claim (I'm sure you know better).

But we aren't under any illusions that the water is actually being cracked and burned....
You´re right Troy (though of course you meant the air expands in the cyl.s not pistons)

The effect is mainly cooling the head and allowing to burn more fuel.
There is more O² in a given volume of water than in the plain air (especially in high altitude).
Then, a volume of water (mist) expands by a factor of 1:1600 roughly, when it becomes steam, that sucks a enormous heatload out of the heads.

We have a "waterfuel" since we have electricity. We can handle it safe to some extend, as everybody knows.
But we cannot use it in a sensible way aboard yachts and ships, as everybody knows.

Anything else is nappy poopers dream....................
and will remain so, as long as one of us is alive.


btw. I edited my former post....
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  #64  
Old 12-18-2009, 10:13 AM
quarktoo quarktoo is offline
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A bit off topic,but interesting:

18 years old,grew up on semi remote farm with mom and dad on 2 weeks holiday.
Eight garbage bags duct taped end to end to make one very long garbage bag.

Filled up with oxy/acetylene gas mix,taped the end off and laid out in the pasture 40 meters(?) from garage,barn,house etc. on top of bunch of newspaper.Lit paper and ran off close to barn with full face Skidoo helmet and ear plugs.

Two minutes later there was a microsecond flash of a shock wave going out radially and heading to me-I thought someone walloped me in the chest and almost fell down.With the sound of the most horrendous BOOOOOOOOM

Powdered all the windows in the barn,garage,and equipment shed.
Kind of scorched for 10 meters around,weeds and clumps of earth torn from ground.
I had a bit on me,and was on the barn-a powdered semi dry cow plop that came along for the ride.

Fixed the windows,parents never knew.

Years later I discovered that oxygenated acetylene is a detonating explosive and that the shock wave can have a propogation speed of up to 15-20 times the speed of sound....

DO NOT try this.
"with full face Skidoo helmet and ear plugs." I does paint a picture of a young scientist.

oxy/acetylene is used in the vortex cannons
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyAyd4WnvhU

But I doubt it has the propagation of this which is probably less than 20ml of water:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=391_1230079211

You can tell by the reaction of the crowd that they were surprised. It is probably the fastest burn rate of gas out there and that combustion could have been roughly doubled with some high voltage.

I want to see a vortex cannon powered by HHO. The problem would be keeping it in the cannon unless you used a gas bag of some sort to hold it in place.
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  #65  
Old 12-18-2009, 10:50 AM
quarktoo quarktoo is offline
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sigurd

If you look closely at the firestorm plasma plug, you see that there is a coating on the plug. I suspect it is thorium that has been sputter coated.

Thorium is an alpha emitter and the gray color is what it looks like after being exposed to air for a few months.

So probably the ball and cage alone is not going to get the effect but thorium is easy to obtain and you can find someone to sputter the thorium if that is what it is. I haven't looked into it in any detail.
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  #66  
Old 12-18-2009, 12:26 PM
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troy2000 troy2000 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
You´re right Troy (though of course you meant the air expands in the cyl.s not pistons)

The effect is mainly cooling the head and allowing to burn more fuel.
There is more O² in a given volume of water than in the plain air (especially in high altitude).
Then, a volume of water (mist) expands by a factor of 1:1600 roughly, when it becomes steam, that sucks a enormous heatload out of the heads.

We have a "waterfuel" since we have electricity. We can handle it safe to some extend, as everybody knows.
But we cannot use it in a sensible way aboard yachts and ships, as everybody knows.

Anything else is nappy poopers dream....................
and will remain so, as long as one of us is alive.


btw. I edited my former post....
Yep, I meant cylinders.

Bad fingers! Bad fingers! Pay attention to what I meant when you're typing! [slaps fingers with ruler....]
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  #67  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:18 PM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
An interesting side effect of water injection on racing cars is a huge reduction in carbon deposits.

When folks had fast cars in the 60's & 70's it was common for carbon deposits to raise the octane requirements above std HI Octane at the pump.

The cure was a simple bug sprayer , and about 15 min of running 2000rpm and pumping enough water thru the carb to cause stumbling.

A newspaper under the tailpipe would collect pretty big chunks!

And the price was right!

FF
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  #68  
Old 12-19-2009, 02:52 PM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Steam cleaning the inside of engines....I remember that.
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  #69  
Old 12-19-2009, 02:59 PM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Micro Turbine Technology

"The Capstone CMT-380 is a fun hybrid car with tremendous performance. Although it is not in Capstone's business plan to start manufacturing complete cars, the limited production CMT-380 and Langford Whisper hybrid demonstration vehicle are intended to showcase the technology and demonstrate value proposition of microturbines as electric vehicle range extenders," added Jamison. "Both Capstone and Langford have been in discussions with automotive industry companies, and these concept and demonstration vehicles help showcase the technology and generate public awareness of the benefits of microturbine technology."

http://www.microturbine.com/news/story.asp?id=536
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  #70  
Old 12-19-2009, 03:04 PM
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brian eiland brian eiland is offline
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Fuel Vapor Technology

http://www.fuelvaporcar.com/html/technology.html
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  #71  
Old 12-19-2009, 03:27 PM
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Hydrogen-On-Demand

I was very intrigued with this idea for 'hydrogen storage'...don't store it, create it on demand

I knew of this company (Millennium Cell) that was working very hard on the solutions, but in my search today I discovered they went into bankruptcy. That's a shame, but a sign of these current economic times.

Here is a PDF I found on the subject.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Hydrogen-on-demand.pdf (1.14 MB, 232 views)
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  #72  
Old 12-19-2009, 07:38 PM
quarktoo quarktoo is offline
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Originally Posted by apex1 View Post
What do you believe you half baked *******? When CAT had a tiny chance to screw MTU forever, the they would process crocodile pee, digested by the own board of directors, to do so.
But our dreamers are all sure the industry worldwide, including the Indian and Chinese, sticks together to suppress their clever inventions.

Not sure if that Chinese link will work so here is the text. Maybe apex is only half wrong on this one. Time will tell.

http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com/b...%E3%81%9F.html

China quietly introduces new financial system

China has stealthily introduced a new financial system based on the renminbi which is well on its way to becoming fully convertible, according to a high-level Chinese source. In addition, China is purchasing 10,000 tons of gold to back up a new fund designed to develop and market heretofore forbidden and suppressed technologies. The fund will be based outside of China and will be controlled by prominent members of the Chinese overseas community. The gold purchase will take some time because of the logistics of transporting it and the Chinese wish to test it thoroughly. Both the Chinese government and MI6 now confirm reports that much of the gold sold by the Federal Reserve Board over the past decade is in fact gold plated tungsten.

For its part, the renminbi is now convertible with South American currencies, the rouble, Middle-Eastern currencies, the yen, South East Asian currencies and African currencies. “We will slowly introduce our new financial system in parallel with the old one and hope that people steadily migrate towards it,” the Chinese official says.

Meanwhile, the latest G20 meeting ended in acrimony and chaos. The leadership of the West is in total disarray and will remain so until the Federal Reserve Board’s bankruptcy becomes visible even to brainwashed section of the Western public. This is now expected by January or February. Both MI6 and a senior Chinese government source now predict the collapse of the Federal Reserve dollar by that time.

We are also hearing various reports that many Pentagon and other US alphabet suit agency figures with both US and Israeli citizenship have recently fled to Israel. Things are coming to a head.

Here is a pretty good list of suppression:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Suppression
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  #73  
Old 12-19-2009, 08:32 PM
dskira dskira is offline
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Not sure if that Chinese link will work so here is the text. Maybe apex is only half wrong on this one. Time will tell.

http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com/b...%E3%81%9F.html

China quietly introduces new financial system

China has stealthily introduced a new financial system based on the renminbi which is well on its way to becoming fully convertible, according to a high-level Chinese source. In addition, China is purchasing 10,000 tons of gold to back up a new fund designed to develop and market heretofore forbidden and suppressed technologies. The fund will be based outside of China and will be controlled by prominent members of the Chinese overseas community. The gold purchase will take some time because of the logistics of transporting it and the Chinese wish to test it thoroughly. Both the Chinese government and MI6 now confirm reports that much of the gold sold by the Federal Reserve Board over the past decade is in fact gold plated tungsten.

For its part, the renminbi is now convertible with South American currencies, the rouble, Middle-Eastern currencies, the yen, South East Asian currencies and African currencies. “We will slowly introduce our new financial system in parallel with the old one and hope that people steadily migrate towards it,” the Chinese official says.

Meanwhile, the latest G20 meeting ended in acrimony and chaos. The leadership of the West is in total disarray and will remain so until the Federal Reserve Board’s bankruptcy becomes visible even to brainwashed section of the Western public. This is now expected by January or February. Both MI6 and a senior Chinese government source now predict the collapse of the Federal Reserve dollar by that time.

We are also hearing various reports that many Pentagon and other US alphabet suit agency figures with both US and Israeli citizenship have recently fled to Israel. Things are coming to a head.

Here is a pretty good list of suppression:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Suppression
It seams the end of the world scenario. It looks quite a paranoia.
The collapse of the Federal Reserve is quite an old story.
Under Reagan it was dumn to collapse then almost every year it was predict to collapse.
I don't know, it collapse so much that it should not exist anymore.
But I can't read the future, so let see. If it collapse, for real this time, in January or February, well you are right.
If not I was, and I will pass the question to my kids; Do you know when the federal Reserve should collapse, and they will say: next years
And if it's true, what I will say to them . I will be f............
Cheers
Daniel
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  #74  
Old 12-19-2009, 08:56 PM
quarktoo quarktoo is offline
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Originally Posted by dskira View Post
It seams the end of the world scenario. It looks quite a paranoia.
The collapse of the Federal Reserve is quite an old story.
Under Reagan it was dumn to collapse then almost every year it was predict to collapse.
I don't know, it collapse so much that it should not exist anymore.
But I can't read the future, so let see. If it collapse, for real this time, in January or February, well you are right.
If not I was, and I will pass the question to my kids; Do you know when the federal Reserve should collapse, and they will say: next years
And if it's true, what I will say to them . I will be f............
Cheers
Daniel
The part that caught my eye was the duel citizens freeing to Israel. In the last 6 months, I have read the Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel. I have always said you would know the end of the American dream was near when Jews quietly slip out of the US with what is left of the loot. An economic collapse, revolution and pandemic would be how I suspect they will cover their tracks.

China is the pink elephant in the room that nobody seems to notice. As nations go, they dwarf everyone else in terms of size, population and manufacturing capability. If they ever decide to expand their borders in a bold way, only a massive war that the world could not survive would stop them.

It seems to me that this has been their long term agenda as they manufacture large neutron bombs designed only to kill soft targets leaving the wealth and infrastructure intact. One thing is for sure, we live in interesting times, we are not being told the truth and we are not represented by our government.

The clean break road map calls for a funding source for Israel other than who has historically provided the bulk of their wealth - the US economy. Someone has a plan and we are not in it.
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  #75  
Old 12-19-2009, 09:07 PM
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troy2000 troy2000 is offline
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Quote:
....Intel, Microsoft and Google are all moving their HQ to Israel....

....Both the Chinese government and MI6 now confirm reports that much of the gold sold by the Federal Reserve Board over the past decade is in fact gold plated tungsten.
Excuse me? I'm going to wave the bullshirt flag here....don't believe everything you read
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