CPP desapear from recreational boats Who gets the benefit of the crime ?

Originally Posted by TollyWally

Apex,
Thank you very much for the interesting post on the cpp units cost. In my limited experience Norwegian marine items and fishing equiptment are usually well engineered and well made. Most definietely food for thought, again thanks.

They are amongst the best available (the Danish and German are as good).
Regards
Richard

Kistinie
Hundested is in Denmark.
And Wally said thanks for MY cost related post. Not Michael Kastens comparison. Which btw. I pointed you towards in another thread.

[mydauphin]

Kistinie,

People don't build things in case you want to buy them. Then the cost of building one unit is increase for all the ones you didn't buy.
Also they want money upfront because they don't want to build something and then you change your mind and they are screwed.
So in the real world, take out your credit card, or send a wire transfer and anything can be built. But not for free, or little money.

The people who invested millions in equipment won't build something for little money. In my little business, I have come to conclusion that if a job is much under $10,000, I don't make a profit. So I don't give price breaks below $10,000 . Sometimes if job is problematic, I pass on it. It is not that I am rich and sometimes I could use money, but experience has taught me the hard way it isn't worth. I rather stay home or work on my boat.

So when you say I want someone to build a small CPP for Me. Get real they have better things to do with their time and money. So you have to pay more if you want them to do it. It is not a conspiracy it is economics 101.

I have same problem with thrust block. All the big ships have them, I can't find a small one at a small price. I am going to have to make it myself and it is not easy since I don't have machine shop

Originally Posted by mydauphin

I have same problem with thrust block. All the big ships have them, I can't find a small one at a small price. I am going to have to make it myself and it is not easy since I don't have machine shop

Did you mean thrust bearing? Then look here:

http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=hggds#/page186/

Regards
Richard

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by mydauphin

Kistinie,

People don't build things in case you want to buy them. Then the cost of building one unit is increase for all the ones you didn't buy.
Also they want money upfront because they don't want to build something and then you change your mind and they are screwed.
So in the real world, take out your credit card, or send a wire transfer and anything can be built. But not for free, or little money.

The people who invested millions in equipment won't build something for little money. In my little business, I have come to conclusion that if a job is much under $10,000, I don't make a profit. So I don't give price breaks below $10,000 . Sometimes if job is problematic, I pass on it. It is not that I am rich and sometimes I could use money, but experience has taught me the hard way it isn't worth. I rather stay home or work on my boat.

So when you say I want someone to build a small CPP for Me. Get real they have better things to do with their time and money. So you have to pay more if you want them to do it. It is not a conspiracy it is economics 101.

I have same problem with thrust block. All the big ships have them, I can't find a small one at a small price. I am going to have to make it myself and it is not easy since I don't have machine shop

Little money, big money...Ah yes i think i see what you mean...it is just like in the cost accounting i learned for 3 years and did for 15 years on the project i was managing.
10K you said...
I have received an offer for a CCP and pump under 4K€ without VAT
I'm now waiting for the technical data, weight...

What is a CCP ?

[kistinie]

just a keyboard mistake ....Sorry !
CPP of course !

And now? Do you call that expensive? Are you still of the same opinion that the CPP systems cost much more than a conventional installation?

[mydauphin]

Originally Posted by apex1

Did you mean thrust bearing? Then look here:

http://viewer.zmags.com/showmag.php?mid=hggds#/page186/

Regards
Richard

No , Take a look at these links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust_block
http://www.rolls-royce.com/marine/pr...eals/shaft.jsp
http://www.michellbearings.com/product/marine.htm

Every large ship has one. I just need two for 2 3/4 inch shaft

They take load from shaft to boat without going into transmission thrust bearing.
On a large boat the amount of force on transmission is enormous thus requiring engine mounts to be hard. With a thrust block it takes thrust and alignment then engine can be mounted with flexible shaft and softer mounts to allow less vibration and noise.

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

And now? Do you call that expensive? Are you still of the same opinion that the CPP systems cost much more than a conventional installation?

Expensive, yes, rather as 4K€ for a propeller to put behind a 5 to 6K€ engine, is a lot of money, at least for me and 90% of the planet, and i think that if it was much more massively produced price could go down for 30 to 50%.
Now it is not a rocket price unreachable for my project and the service it will bring.

Results:
7 quotations asked for light under 20Kw CPP:

1 positive answer but till now not a single technical info about it
3 negatives
3 did not answered


Is the product easily available. No

Originally Posted by mydauphin

No , Take a look at these links.

Every large ship has one. I just need two for 2 3/4 inch shaft

They take load from shaft to boat without going into transmission thrust bearing.
On a large boat the amount of force on transmission is enormous thus requiring engine mounts to be hard. With a thrust block it takes thrust and alignment then engine can be mounted with flexible shaft and softer mounts to allow less vibration and noise.

Yes, you are talking about a thrust bearing!
Blocks they are called in larger sizes only. And the navy or merchant vessel needs such block because they have no gearbox. In case of your yacht, the gearbox handles the thrust, you dont need a additional bearing. And the flexible coupling I pointed to, is just there to distribute the load even.
I install the big MAN 1700hp engines without thrust bearings! But with proper sized gear and coupling naturally.
Regards
Richard

Kistinie
that: >>>>>>>Expensive, yes, rather as 4K€ for a propeller to put behind a 5 to 6K€ engine, is a lot of money<<<<<<<
was again a very unmature statement, as usual.
Where do you buy just a propeller? You buy a CPP system! That includes a prop. But you would have to buy a shaft, gear, prop and bearings for the conventional arrangement too! So, in a fair comparison it is NOT expensive, as mentioned 20 times before. You are unwilling to compare fair, it does´nt fit your prejudice.

[kistinie]

Not immature statement but facts...as usual:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/articl...20_Jahren.html

So 3 month of net average german income to buy the cheapest CPP propeller, is... expensive.
Are you on the same planet than the 6 billion others ?

Originally Posted by kistinie

Not immature statement but facts...as usual:
http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/articl...20_Jahren.html
So 3 month of net average german income to buy the cheapest CPP propeller, is... expensive.

Learn reading and math´s. dumbass. 33105 ./. 12 = 2758.75 € thats the average labourers income in Germany!
And then you compare prices for yacht equipment with average labourers income...?

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

Learn reading and math´s. dumbass. 33105 ./. 12 = 2758.75 € thats the average labourers income in Germany!
And then you compare prices for yacht equipment with average labourers income...?

Open disrespect and lies...As usual.

you do not pay taxes on your income and VAT... Lucky Germans ! Or may be, you use quantum German maths, that are not the same ?
2758 € average per individual, per month net income ! Whow i will go to Germany and i will work without eating only 2 months to get the cheapest CPP

Maths and thinking:
For us here in France, a country in development average gross income in only 2400€, but here we pay our taxes, so 2400 gross x0.7 to get it net - 100 income tax = 1580€, so it is 3 months of net income to get it, as i said, to paid the 3800 plus 20% VAT = 4600€

And yes, i compare prices for yacht equipment with average labourers income...
Why, boating, should be a upper class "privilege" only ?
Nice conception of life. Its is always a 'pleasure' to read this kind of statements, no doubt that we will have a better world with this spirit !
i suggest you have a look to this about poor sailing on inexpensive boat with punk and tramp sailors ;-)
http://voilepourave.over-blog.com/

[singleprop]

As far as I know a thrust bearing cannot be installed in a traditional way on a CPP because of the hollow shaft and push/pull rod. Therefore, the thrust bearing must be installed in the gear itself (such as on the SABB 65E).

Doesn't this mean that the gearbox must be hard mounted/boltet onto the engine bed to absorbe the thrust.. and that a soft coupling is required between the gear and the engine (allowing the engine to be soft mounted)?

Sorry for the thread drift

[TollyWally]

That's not thread drift Thats a damn good question.