CPP desapear from recreational boats Who gets the benefit of the crime ?

[kistinie]

Whao ! i will have to attack another bank ...euh no not a bank it will be empty, i will only get debts

About lack of reaction
May be it's the cold climate...it usually slows down the chemical reactions ?
Thanks !

[FAST FRED]

"Why do you say this product does not exist ?"


Because products are mfg to fit a NEED ,

and so far YOU are the only person in the world that wants a constant speed prop!

FF

[kistinie]

When i said constant speed shaft it is just a way to make clear that i want to be able to go forward slow or fast, reverse, stop, this, only playing on the pitch, the shaft keeping on turning.
As it seemed very difficult to explain this to my interlocutors i did this short

In reality the rmp will change, but not that much compare to a traditional propulsion. i think it could be something like 900 to 1500

I hope it is understood better now
Thanks !

Originally Posted by kistinie

I hope it is understood better now
Thanks !

No, it is still senseless!
The main advantage of the CPP is to load the engine sufficiently at DIFFERENT rpm.
You just have NO IDEA what you´re talking about. Thats what we understand!

[kistinie]

Originally Posted by apex1

No, it is still senseless!
The main advantage of the CPP is to load the engine sufficiently at DIFFERENT rpm.
You just have NO IDEA what you´re talking about. Thats what we understand!

a CPP change the load on the engine. Wooo ! What a new crucial fact you bring !

As usual you look down on what you do not understand and give no useful informations.
Forget me forever, please
Now, this is not that negative, as with such a behaviour toward me you lighten a lot my karma (wyrd in your country) !
Thank you very much for this gift.


To come back to the technical problem, if such a device is impossible to get, the CPP can be simplified in a more simple non reversing model only allowing only pitch change for positive torque
Is this simplification helping the design of such a CPP ?

I am very surprised that after 79 post the only product found is a 12000 dollar product (35mm shaft)!
So to have a small CPP propeller in 2009 on a light leisure boat the price is probably around 10.000 $ for a smaller 25mm shaft
This is acceptable for a 200.000$ boat
But for a 30.000 one ???
My god, the price of a nice city car !
Can't we find any better solution ?



------------------------

These are the forum rules:
I do not understand why moderators are so indulgent with you APEX


2.) Conduct must be conducive to sharing ideas and information

2a.) It is never acceptable to insult or attack other members. Disagreement is healthy and beneficial to intelligent discussion but should be based always on ideas and factual information and never degenerate to a personal attack or insult.

A violation of the above may lead to the immediate termination of your login and being banned from the forum permanently at the descretion of the moderator(s). More than one violation will mean the termination of your login and permanent banning from the forum without discussion. If you believe a post constitues an attack against you or other violation, you are always welcome to report this using the "report post" icon on the top right of each post .

[FAST FRED]

Is this simplification helping the design of such a CPP ?

ANY CPP will be able to operate with out a clutch , in other words the shaft turns all the time. But NOT at a constant speed

With the control wheel full pitch in reverse thru zero pitch to full pitch forward is what they do.

Of course when the pitch requirement is too high the shaft slows down , or you add power.

FF

[fcfc]

Controlable Pitch Propellers have near disappeared in small size, because it costs much much less to burn a little more fuel than to buy a CPP and all its ancillary items (hollow shaft and all shaft seals, pitch control command, etc ..)

With a CPP, you will still need a clutch and a reduction. You could only save the reverse part of the transmission, ie not much.

[kistinie]

FF
yes speed changes but to keep the diesel engine in his optimal efficiency area you will go to the extreme consider of only one speed. This is just an abuse of language i do, to keep this in mind
that is to say that you have one usual cruising speed depending on weather condition, by example the more head wind you get the slower you will go, but load will remain the same on the engine, as well as shaft engine speed
You economy pilot your boat, accepting the natural events
Electric motor is far less sensible to this, but in this case the regeneration/drag factor will impose the search of more constant speed for shaft, and on fast multihull this is compulsory

Fc Fc

The real balance of gain in energy consumption, regeneration electricity increase and engine life compare to additional cost of CPP is certainly not as bad as we could think.
Now with 10K$ region price for a 6k$ engine, the discussion is likely to be closed, i agree with that.

[fcfc]

Another thing for regeneration.

Why do you want to capture wind energy to move a boat with lost efficiency, then use the boat move in water to turn a water prop, again with lost efficiency, to turn a generator.

Why dont turn a generator directly with the wind ? It will even work the boat anchored, which is by far the most frequent situation of a leisure boat.

There are very few CPP on the market, but wind generators are available nearly everywhere, in every model and size.

Just my 2 cents.

[kistinie]

Size, danger, windage and noise for same power produced

Of course i loose speed
But
To get 1 Kw from a windmill, you need a monster, one more monster aboard to look at
When i sail i need the comfort of a lot of energy as it is security
it also can be used to slow the boat in gale configuration without deploying drogue and to the contrary of ICE, you get energy from this, so it can last a week.
And this is just an example
Now for the few snakes of boat industry dry minded reading this forum to get free ideas to patent, steal this one.
With an electric motor linked to an electric CPP, you will be able to patent and sale expensive "myballsmotion" "ifukcUcontrol" program to drive the BLDC controller and the pitch of propeller of an hybrid sailing boat, by example, reading back emf and delta t amps of motor, to make it go up wave and down wave at the same speed or do better upwind stable trajectory when wind is unstable. Active motion for sailing boat will be next generation of electric propulsion.

Bear in mind that my ideas are for multihull or very fast monohull
I know that this kind of things are not vital to trawlers
So if you talk of a motor home boat, my idea is stupid
And once a boat is anchored, it is a home.
Anything fits a home, nothing is vital.

SECURITY and AGAIN SECURITY
worth 3 cents ;-)
Merci pour la bonne question !

Now if you can find me a nice used inexpensive CPP, i would be more than happy !

Originally Posted by kistinie

FF
yes speed changes but to keep the diesel engine in his optimal efficiency area you will go to the extreme consider of only one speed. This is just an abuse of language i do, to keep this in mind
that is to say that you have one usual cruising speed depending on weather condition, by example the more head wind you get the slower you will go, but load will remain the same on the engine, as well as shaft engine speed

As usual, the sheer nonsense!
When will you lean back a while (say 25 years) and learn what a CPP is? The advantage of such propeller is that you load your engine optimal at EVERY rpm! And naturally every speed! You just have to set your preferred rpm and load the engine by increasing pitch (as one example).
And stop complaining about prices you do´nt have!
And NO NO NO I do not point to any prices or better info in this idiotic thread with it´s senseless title!

Originally Posted by kistinie

“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” A.H
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over” J.G

I see you have great references for your communication technique.
If you have difficulty to understand the initials, i give you a trick, they lived in Germany, and hopefully for mankind survival, are now dead
Are you a kind of fan of this communication style ?

---------------------------------------

I assume you pointed to that???

Originally Posted by kistinie

-----------------------

These are the forum rules:
I do not understand why moderators are so indulgent with you APEX


2.) Conduct must be conducive to sharing ideas and information

2a.) It is never acceptable to insult or attack other members. Disagreement is healthy and beneficial to intelligent discussion but should be based always on ideas and factual information and never degenerate to a personal attack or insult.

A violation of the above may lead to the immediate termination of your login and being banned from the forum permanently at the descretion of the moderator(s). More than one violation will mean the termination of your login and permanent banning from the forum without discussion. If you believe a post constitues an attack against you or other violation, you are always welcome to report this using the "report post" icon on the top right of each post .

And that:

Originally Posted by fcfc

Controlable Pitch Propellers have near disappeared in small size, because it costs much much less to burn a little more fuel than to buy a CPP and all its ancillary items (hollow shaft and all shaft seals, pitch control command, etc ..)
With a CPP, you will still need a clutch and a reduction. You could only save the reverse part of the transmission, ie not much.

...sorry, is wrong!

First point:
we boatbuilders can choose from a wider variety of brands and products today than ever before!
Second:
a CPP does´nt need a clutch! So the last sentence is senseless.

Regards
Richard

[fcfc]

Originally Posted by apex1

...sorry, is wrong!

First point:
we boatbuilders can choose from a wider variety of brands and products today than ever before!
Second:
a CPP does´nt need a clutch! So the last sentence is senseless.

Regards
Richard

Technically, it does not need a clutch.

But in the context of small cruising boat, at mooring, when charging your batteries from engine alternator , do you want to turn your prop at 0 pitch ?

And in a man overboard maneuvre, the only way to stop your prop from rotating is to stop your engine. I am not sure most people would accept it.

What is acceptable in a big boat may not be acceptable in a small one.

[fcfc]

Originally Posted by kistinie

But
To get 1 Kw from a windmill, you need a monster, one more monster aboard to look at

Have you done a a preliminary sizing ?

Shaft alternator give a typical current from 5A to 10A in best conditions. That's roughly 5% to 10% of 1Kw (83A @ 12V).

So getting 1Kw from water will require a monster, too.

And a fast light boat will probably not accept the additional drag whitout a severe speed down. Which will reduce the power.

[gonzo]

I wrote "controllable pitch propeller" and the search gave me the websites for several manufacturers. Kistine seems to be looking for a conspiracy to bitch about. Read the title of this stupid thread: "Who benefits from the crime?. Stop stalling, write a check and get yourself a CPP.

[kistinie]

Who gets the benefit of the crime is a way of presenting the problem with a little fun, do not take everything on the word. And for you information my astrological sign is the one impossible to catch made for water...Sorry i did not choose
Conspiracy is not adapted, it is just the result of different factors, that all have interest to the extinction of CPP for leisure boats
This doesn't mean it was organised, but only that many independent factors went in the same direction, and it is not for the advantage of the final user
They are several CPP for leisure boat ?
Ok show us a coherent models/prices ...for an average 35 feet sailing boat with 40 Hp engine by example, not for a 2m$/60feet :-)



FcFc
This was about this subject : New propulsion sytems for ships
Post 562

Aquagene 6 is a poor designed towed propeller that really gives what is claimed

i think the 1 Kw goal should be accessible for a fast powerful multihull going over 15 Knts.
I am working on it, experience will tell me more
Maybe i will only get less, but when i see that a poor aquagen 6 gives over 200W sailing 12 Knts with only 60Lbs drag, i'm optimistic
Anyway... time will tell !

Power/drag ratio is better in air or in water on a sailing boat ? Air is slipping more but i'm not sure it is so simple.
Who knows this ?

And once again, such power is only possible for fast light multihulls not heavy boats