Alternative Propulsion And Hulls

[spiel_mit_feuer]

i am interested in alternative propulsion, engines, for smaller yachts, between 30-40 feet.. im interested in alternative technologies, electric motor diesel hybrids, hydrogen, biodiesel.. i have plans to build a boat soon, though im not sure whether im going 30 or 40 foot.. but id like to be able to take it across the oceans.. does anyone have any ideas or solutions? im also interested in higher tech style boat hulls such as hydrofoils, hover (im not sure that would be reliable enough though) and perhaps some ideas people may have that havent been built yet?.

[FAST FRED]

To cross even the smallest ocean SAIL is the simplest and least expensive way.

5000 years of experience preclude much Alternative.

Diesel is still the only way to motor any distance at a modest (or better ) speed.

High tech and alternate ideas are fine for mental masterbation , but for folks that want a boat in the next few decades , the tried and true marine solutions are all there is.

Big bucks can get a lighter construction , and if you have loads of cash a long long skinney boat will be easier and faster to push thru the wayer than a heavy roomaran box of a boat.

Select the "best" design for your Desirements , and find a boat builder.

FF

[spiel_mit_feuer]

i was considering going with either a cat, or planing monohull and try out a biodiesel/electric hybrid propulsion to see what sort of efficiency id achieve with the fuel, the cat could be both sail and power though, with more interior room which does lead me moreso into that direction.. anyone know about custom building a hydrofoil of 30-40 feet?

[FAST FRED]

but id like to be able to take it across the oceans..

Hydrofoil takes far more speed , to stay up , than most ocean cruisers can see on the best sailing day in a century.

I guess you have many many hundreds of thousands of Euros to experiment with , access to test tanks and research facilities , and enough guts that a few decades of no results will be part of the dream.

There are loads of non naval arch that will feed this dream for a good price.

Check out the Galcier Bay site for some ideas on very inefficient , but electric , propulsion.

For reality go to the Professional Boat Builder site and READ the articles by Nigel Calder concerning electric use for propulsion.

FF

[spiel_mit_feuer]

i wasnt planning to use sails on a hydrofoil (idiot)

[Kay9]

Ya know Feuer, Fred here is one of the better contributors on this forum and someone in which you should LISTEN too. Calling people an "idiot" that are trying to help someone that has NO IDEA what they are talking about or doing, is a sure way to end up talking to yourself and recieving NO HELP at all.

K9

[spiel_mit_feuer]

thats exactly my point.. you assume i dont know what im doing, such as he assumed i was actually talking about sailing a hydrofoil, i came into this forum to find people who would actually contribute to a discussion about alternative propulsion and hull designs rather than bombard me with their arrogance, and ignorance in assuming i have no idea what im talking about, and beginning their conversation with me in a condescending nature... so if anyone has anything positive to contribute to my post, then post if, if not, keep your mouth shut because i dont care to hear people who assume they know more than me, its not what i went to college for physics and engineering for

[FAST FRED]

" he assumed i was actually talking about sailing a hydrofoil,"

A sailing hydrofoil has crossed from SF to Hawaii about 30 years ago.

Guess you missed it,

FF

[spiel_mit_feuer]

i dont care what someone else has done, all i care about is what im going to do, so if youre not going to actually contribute something positive to my post.. why do you even both posting? or do you just enjoy coming into peoples posts to **** on their ideas or topics?

[Kay9]

Option "B" in your case.

[marshmat]

Must we go on like this?

SMF, you did ask in post #3 about custom building a 30-40' hydrofoil in the same line as you asked about a motorsailing cat. Fred shot the hydrofoil down. He may be a bit short on grammar skills (no offence, Fred), but the guy tends to be right an awful lot.

Now that it's clear that you're thinking cat (I think):

If you're after efficient powering and good sail performance in the same boat, I do agree that multihulls are the way of the future.

What I don't see happening anytime soon (unfortunately) is a shift away from diesel in favour of something cleaner and cheaper. There are some applications where diesel/electric is promising, but it is not a universal solution and the technology needs to come down in price a fair bit more. Fuel cells for yachts may be technologically feasible in a decade or so, but what fuel will they run on and will you be able to buy it in Vanuatu, Samoa, etc? Diesel will be with us for a while, although the source may shift from oil to biomass as the former gets more expensive and the latter more efficient. But the infrastructure and technology are there, so that's what we're stuck with for now.

[spiel_mit_feuer]

yeah, multihulls are a lot faster, efficient, etc.. but i could be doing a lot of sailing in the north sea, and sometimes north of the arctic circle, if a mutli-hull rolls, youre screwed, but a monohull will be able to take rough weather a lot better which is why im leaning towards a monohull design now, and since i do want to do a lot of traveling i think sails are the best way to go.. i thought about a hydrofoil power boat before but it just wouldnt be right for what i need, id love a hydrofoil, planing hull, or multihull if it fit into what i need in a boat, which it doesnt seem to right now

[kengrome]

i dont care what someone else has done, all i care about is what im going to do.

This seems like a rather short-sighted argument since most people are anxious to learn from the things other people have done. Be that as it may, what are you going to do anyways? All you've done so far is mentioned a dozen different things. Can you possibly be a little bit more focused so we know what you actually intend to do?

i could be doing a lot of sailing in the north sea, and sometimes north of the arctic circle, if a mutli-hull rolls, youre screwed, but a monohull will be able to take rough weather a lot better which is why im leaning towards a monohull design now, and since i do want to do a lot of traveling i think sails are the best way to go.

So you have made a final decision -- a sailing monohull -- is this correct? That's fine, but I still do not understand where "alternative propulsion" comes in on this type of boat, and alternative propulsion are the first two words you used when you created this thread. Can you explain your concept please?

[Psychobikerbill]

You may want to search for Stanley Myers patents. Interesting work in converting H2O into HHO (Brown's Gas) which is highly flammable. I have heard several reports of people running cars on it, although I have yet to try the conversion. Just a thought..

[spiel_mit_feuer]

for alternative propulsion i was thinking of adapting some alternative drive systems ive been working on and testing for cars, such as using a diesel generator to charge a small battery pack that works as a power buffer for operating an electric drive, it increases efficiency as the electric motors offer more torque at any range, this is something i was considering for a power boat, though i have no idea how much of an efficiency increase there would be since i havent tried it in a marine platform yet, it will increase a 50mpg to 200mpg on the road, so it might be worth trying... im also working on an efficient electrolyzer that can seperate hydrogen from water at a rapid rate, i could possibly use that to power a fuel cell for auxilery power on a sailboat, using either solar panels, or a wind turbine to power the electrolysis giving me free auxilery power for moving in and out of harbors, it would eliminate any need of buying fuel.. given the efficiency of fuel cells, and the electrolyzer, i still doubt it would be possible to power an engine directly as i dont think it could create enough hydrogen, so i doubt it would be useful in a power boat...though if i bought a small used planing hull i could probably run accurate tests