Windmill or Wind Turbine- powered boats: how many are out there, and are they viable?

[Pericles]

http://www.fourwinds-ii.com/v2/?c=library&i=windGenComp

Pericles

[Windmaster]

I don't want to explain further about the blades not being able to rotate faster than the wind since this comes too close to revealing the secret of my system, and believe me, there is a secret here. That is why I withdrew my videos.
Clearly, you don't understand the process of the patenting system. Any public exhibition of an invention before the patent is granted can jeopardise the grant of a patent. Check it out.
However, they were there for all to see before. Why would I want to post them and then withdraw them? I don't think it is very fair to say that "millions of man hours" has been expended upon this in the past. A few inventors have tried it, some crackpot, that's all. Most people have never heard of it.
Just consider that the Wright brothers first flight was only 12 seconds and that Frank Whittle's first turbojet plane couldn't even pull itself out of the mud! Nobody concluded from this that these projects were not worth pursuing.
You can see other fields of research I follow by looking at my website http://www.sailwings.net this is concerned with self-trimming wingsails.

[Richard Miller]

Originally Posted by Duma Tau

I reckon the ultimate sailboat is one which can go directly into the wind.

Claims have been made that wind turbine powered vessels do just that, without other means of ( engine ) propulsion or fuel useage.

Various cargo vessels started out, one by Jacques Cousteau, if my memory serves?

I would love to hear of any boats and ships using this type of drive.

Surely the ultimate in Green travel?

I would love to hear from anybody who is working on a Wind Turbin boat currently. richardmiller592@hotmail.com

[Lin Olen]

Hello People. My invention titled Ä Propulsion Unit"was filed in Canberra, Australia on 15th March, 1974. It was alloted application number PB 6924. Jim Bates of Whangarei, NZ built his "Te Whaka" almost exactly to my disclosure, sailing it some 1,500 miles. Te Whaka cruised at 4.5 knots. My first effort at a full sized boat was a Trailer-Tri called "thrippence" which acheived 7.5 Knots into a 3.5 knot breeze with a very marginal 6 foot tin windmill. Icould not afford to fit my variable pitch airscrew which would be far more efficient. You can go where you like without fear of fragile rigs or ferocious winds. Cheers.

[rwatson]

Jaques Cousteaus boat ALCYONE couldnt sail into the wind, though it had very high pointing angles due to the efficient foils it employed.
WindTurbine powered sailboats have been one someones drawing board since the beginning of the century, but no one except Windmaster has ever been able to solve all the problems associated with huge propellor (oops turbine) swept areas, dynamic gyroscopic forces while at sea, turbulent airflow patterns from waves, and a host of other practical problems.
I have been holding my breath for Windmasters invention to hit the patent office without luck -he must be sorting out the last few details.
You might like to read a prvious thread on the topic
another idea

[Richard Miller]

Originally Posted by Tim B

Of ourse, there's nothing to stop you using a wind-turbine some batteries and an electric motor. This might provide a better solution.

Tim B.

Hi Tim
I am a wind turbin freek too. I think too much effency would be lost using an electrical system. But on the other hand I haven´t tried it either, so it´s entirely possible you may be right. It´s food for thought
Sincerely: Richard Miller
richardmiller592@hotmail.com

[Richard Miller]

Originally Posted by Windmaster

In the late 1990's I built and tested two different versions. They went quite well directly against the wind, but more development work is required to get them optimised.

Hi Pete:
It´s me again. I have a full size Wind Turbin that should be finished by summer this year. I would like to know about how fast your boat can go and the wind speed required to get it to that speed. The problem with WT boats is they are inherently slow from what I read.

Richard
richardmiller592@hotmail.com

[Lin Olen]

Rotary Sails.
Sails,
Rotary.

A sail is an aerofoil that obeys the laws of aerodynamics.

A keel is a hydrofoil that obeys the laws of hydrodynamics.

It is essential minimise the disturbance of the flow around the boat, the sail and the keel. It takes a lot of energy to move a ton of water back and forth! Although not so obvious it also takes a lot of energy to move air to and fro. Ideally there should be very little accelleration or decelleration of the water flowing around a hull, or the air over a sail.

The apparent wind is the most important factor and this is severely limited by the hull speed. If it were possible to double the apparent wind one could reduce the sail area to one-quarter... The same reasoning applies to the propeller.

By axially mounting sails coupled to axially mounted keels the limitation of power generation imposed by the hull speed is completely by-passed. Double and redouble the sail speed.

The principle of a traction propeller is reversible. A modern variable pitch airscrew can double as an effective rotary sail. We are talking of from tens up to thousands of kilowatts here!

My Trailer-Tri used a nine horsepower outboard driving directly upwind into a three and a half knot breeze, achieving an apparent wind over the deck of six knots, This was the lowest speed at which the six foot diameter fixed pitch windmill rotor began to perform. The hydraulics were then engaged while heading directly into the wind and Thrippence immediately surged to seven point five knots, at which point the outboard was reduced to idle. The boat continued to power upwind and could be steered in any upwind direction.

The windmill rotor was turning at two hundred revolutions with a chain drive stepping up the revolutions to a hydraulic pump. The hydraulics drove a twelve by twelve inch propeller at eight hundred revolutions through a forward, neutral and reverse control. Lin Olen, Woolli, AU

[Lin Olen]

Thrippence

[Windmaster]

I'm surprised by how many "rotary sailors" have appeared recently! When I started my project I thought I was unique. But I guess its an old idea that has frequently been revived.
I'm in the process of preparing short videos that will appear on youtube. They are of my model tests and my "fullsize" version. Most of my work on "Rotary Sailing was more than ten years ago. My system has been patented.
Richard asks what was the boatspeed in different windspeeds. I don't have exact figures for that. Bear in mind the natural windspeed is not constant as most people think - it varies by 50 percent all the time. "What speed will it do in what windspeed" is a question often asked about wind turbine boats. It puzzles me that no-one ever asks that question in relation to normal sailboats!
The boat "Thrippence" looks an interesting experiment with good results that I had not seen before. I would love to hear more details of Richard Miller's new boat.

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by Windmaster

there is a secret here. That is why I withdrew my videos.
Clearly, you don't understand the process of the patenting system. Any public exhibition of an invention before the patent is granted can jeopardise the grant of a patent.

Well done. It appears you have successfully established the patent then, since October last year

Could you quote the Patent number for us so we can check out the features.

I await more info with interest.

[Windmaster]

I have just posted a video of one of my models on Youtube.
Its at http://www.youtube.com/v/OlqLHRE8ReQ - I was disappointed it lost some quality during the upload. But I think you can still see what it's all about.

[Lin Olen]

On Rotary Sails... Jim Bates built Te Whaka as suggested by me in patent disclosure. The reason that the rotating sail and rotating keel are so big is because I thought losses due to inefficiency would be high. This is not so, Small variable pitch propellors and standard marine props work very well. I have a photo of my Trailer-Tri under Rotary Sails. I spoke to Jim Bates but he did not believe that I provided the information that he worked with. The powers that be sabotaged Jim's boat. He said he was going to build a catamaran version but I have not seen it. When I applied for a patent in 1974 a patent search failed to find any rotary sails or wind turbines as a form of propulsion, but they sure have proliferated sine 1974. None of the plagiarised copies have worked better than Jims first boat. I seem to be the only inventor that has developed my design to a much highe potential. Look up all my posts on the forum. National Geographic interviewed me over a cup of coffee and milked my brains, then publishe my drawing made up by Havillah Hawkins of Camden, saying that he would not patent his invention, but Havilla's principles were of a much higher standard than those of the NG correspondent. Cheers, Lin

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by Lin Olen

On Rotary Sails... Jim Bates built Te Whaka as suggested by me in patent disclosure. ......... I spoke to Jim Bates but he did not believe that I provided the information that he worked with.

Is it me, or there is not a lot of logic in these two statements.

And could you explain
:The powers that be sabotaged Jims boat" please

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by Windmaster

the assumption that the turbine blades rotate at enormous speeds is erroneous, in fact the blades on my design do not rotate (and never can), rotate faster than the windspeed. So a blow from one of these could easily be less that that of a swinging boom. On a fullsize design of mine, a person actually walked into the turning blades without injury! .

The blades on this RC model on You Yube seem to be spinning quite fast - whats the story?