Windmill or Wind Turbine- powered boats: how many are out there, and are they viable?

[John in CR]

Rick W,

As a practical matter, doesn't make a whole lot more sense for those interested in wind turbines on boats as a drive to use their brain power to develop practical wing sail solutions? I don't see much use in proving it can be done or optimizing it if something else is so much better, and the world really needs better wingsails.

John

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by John in CR

Rick W,

As a practical matter, doesn't make a whole lot more sense for those interested in wind turbines on boats as a drive to use their brain power to develop practical wing sail solutions? I don't see much use in proving it can be done or optimizing it if something else is so much better, and the world really needs better wingsails.

John

John
I see that the wind turbine is practical when linked to electrical storage and electrical propulsion. Add solar energy collection and it should be possible to make a cruiser capable of good average speed.

It can store extra energy when the wind is strong rather than just going a little faster as is the case with a simply mechanical system. In very strong wind the turbine is feathered.

This is the area I am currently exploring.

Rick W

[Boston]

hey Rick what your talking about is these bluenergy turbines if you go to this page and watch the video its pretty self explanatory
you have to click play once to get the flicker to come up and then again to make it play
this guy integrates solar cells with vawt generators
he also uses kinda a 3D solar cell design to optimize the collector area and broaden the optimum solar gain area

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...CBw9XhU1t-zsag

[backyardbil]

Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby

Bil
This a quite a tired topic.

Just quietly I might be able to demonstrate something this weekend. It is not a particularly complete design as I will use bits I have here right now. If it works OK I will post some clips. It requires the right wind. Not enough and it does not go. Too much and the transmission will fail.

Rick W

- Look forward to seeing it.

- Bil

[backyardbil]

Originally Posted by John in CR

Rick W,

As a practical matter, doesn't make a whole lot more sense for those interested in wind turbines on boats as a drive to use their brain power to develop practical wing sail solutions? I don't see much use in proving it can be done or optimizing it if something else is so much better, and the world really needs better wingsails.

John

I found a good site at http://www.sailwings.net

- Bil

[Turbinesrex]

I just stumbled across your site by searching for any information on turbine adaptations for boats.

I am no engineer but found myself very interested in this thread.

Just curious have you given any thought to utilizing a double-helix turbine. This would certainly be much more aesthetic than a standard prop turbine but not only that it has the big advantage over the standard turbine in that wind is received from all directions. Thus eliminating the need to reposition the turbine into the wind. It also rotates at a lower wind speed has no upper limits on acceptable wind speed and can thus operate in very high winds.

I found this site which describes utilization of a double-helix turbine with solar cells imbedded into the turbine blades which gives you an inbuilt potential secondary natural energy power source.

http://www.bluenergyusa.com/PDFs/SolarWind_Flyer.pdf

Here is another link to a more basic double helix turbine without the solar adaptation. You should watch the youtube video provided which demonstrates the product using a wind tunnel.
http://www.helixwind.com/en/


I'd love to read any thoughts anyone has on the potentiali utilization of this new concept.

[backyardbil]

Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby

Bil
This a quite a tired topic.

Just quietly I might be able to demonstrate something this weekend. It is not a particularly complete design as I will use bits I have here right now. If it works OK I will post some clips. It requires the right wind. Not enough and it does not go. Too much and the transmission will fail.

Rick W

Did it work ok? Would very much like to see how it went.

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by backyardbil

Did it work ok? Would very much like to see how it went.

I have had two weekends when I have been at home to test it but both times there have been gales here in Melbourne. Even had it at the lake on Saturday but it was 60 to 70kph gusts. I did not even put the boat in the water.

I am after 15 to 25kph for a test. Will certainly post something when it is tested.

Rick W

[Boston]

Mr T Rex
yes I have seen the solar cell hybrid turbine
those things cost about $30,000
pretty much puts it out of my range since Im thinking of using three helical turbines to augment my elec. system
aesthetically the vertical wind turbines are a matter of taste
I prefer them
the girl does not
which means Ill be building one for the back yard and if it works out
its going into the design considerations for the build

I really liked the idea that they operate at low wind speeds and can tolerate extreme wind as well
that and they are silent
kinda makes em perfect for dockside

any way glad you liked the thread
and welcome to the site
B

[Guest625101138]

bil
The wind was still strong this weekend but I decided to have a go on Sunday. It was much windier than I would have preferred.

I attached the Turbi-Prop set up I have built to V11J pedal boat, minus pedals. You get some idea of the mounting in the attached photo.

By the time I got the boat in the water the wind was gusting to over 40kph and dropped occasionally to under 20kph.

In the gusts I was wildly overpowered. It was tollerable going directly to windward and directly downwind. On a reach the overturning moment was sometimes a bit much. I did capsize but was able to right it by sitting on an outrigger.

I managed 5kph directly into the wind however this was with the prop getting air from the trough behind the shaft tube. I expect 10kph would be quite easy if the system was set up better. Holding the boat on the shore the water prop churns until it sucks air and the boat is pulling forward with quite some force.

The turbine blades stood up extremely well. The pressure on the blades when not spinning is easy to manage. It is really frightening once it spins up. The attached video shows it spinning it in the front yard. This is very protected compared with the lake. You can hear the blades whip up in the gusts.

I ended up stripping something in the drive system so I will need to dismantle to find out what.

I could make quite a few improvements but will probably do the next test on a more stable boat. My main problems were rudder being too small, no fairing on the shaft tube and inability to easy control the angle of the turbine relative to the wind. With the latter it is possible to depower by turning the turbine axis off line to the wind. The vibration is bad but it is a safe means of depowering.

I had my hands full just keeping the thing controlled so no video of it in action. I have the speed plot that shows I cracked 5kph. The peak was achieved with the prop going in and out of aerating as it pushed over waves. It was quite severe on the drive train. You have to accept this was directly into the wind. I will get someone on the shore next time I take it out or choose calmer conditions.

Neither the turbine nor prop are optimised for this operation. The prop is a model plane prop I bought to test on a pedal boat. The turbine is for a wind generator.

Rick W

[backyardbil]

Hi Rick

Hats off to you for having a go, despite being really too windy. Maybe you need to have different size blades for different wind strengths.
In the video the blades don't look as if they are going very fast. I'm assuming this is just a result of the frame rate on the camera and they are going quicker than that, any idea how fast - rpm?

How about the safety aspect? Those blades screaming round near the driver! Hope you were wearing a helmet!

I've got a feeling it might be a much more docile beast in a light wind. Hope you get one soon and can get a good video.

[Guest625101138]

bil
When you hear the whirring wind noise in the beginning and towards the end of the video the blades are a blur to the human eye. The video is 8 frames per second so it would be possible to work out the speed if I carefully determined the phasing of the blades with the framing during the speed up.

The turbine pitch is approximately 1m and I suppose the wind was 6 to 8m/s peak in the video. Hence speed up to 500rpm in the video. On the water I might got to 800rpm when the prop aerated.

The water prop has a pitch of 300mm so needs around 300rpm to do 5kph. I got the top speed in the end in partially sheltered area when the prop was not aerating as much and the boat had easier going in calmer water.

One of the scary aspects is the blades whipping past within a foot or so of my face when I was reaching. The reason I capsized was because I could not lean out enough while still holding the angle control arm for the turbine. If I let the control arm go I could not retrieve it because I could bot get under the blades.

Yesterday would have been a great day if all was sorted and the drive train was more robust. It was far from ideal for the initial test.

Rick W

[Windmaster]

Originally Posted by Rick Willoughby

bil
It is really frightening once it spins up. The attached video shows it spinning it in the front yard. This is very protected compared with the lake. You can hear the blades whip up in the gusts.

I ended up stripping something in the drive system so I will need to dismantle to find out what.

Rick W

Have you considered making it less "frightening" by using a slower speed, higher solidity wind turbine? Thereby getting greater rotating force and less back pressure. Also, if you went this way, the strain on the transmission would be reduced and you would be less likely to break it.

[Guest625101138]

Originally Posted by Windmaster

Have you considered making it less "frightening" by using a slower speed, higher solidity wind turbine? Thereby getting greater rotating force and less back pressure. Also, if you went this way, the strain on the transmission would be reduced and you would be less likely to break it.

No. The turbine is for a wind turbine generator on a larger boat. The turbi-prop drive is something I put together a few weekends ago to test the turbine. I got impatient waiting for suitable weather. I was surprised it held together as well as it did given the wind strength. My ideal wind speed for testing is 15 to 20kph. It was more than twice this in the gusts and rarely less than 20kph.

I intend to make a few modifications that will enable easier control and give it another go.

The high aspect blades are ideal for this application because once stalled they present very little windage. I need to be able to control the power by causing them to stall. A better system would be variable pitch but that is much more complexity.

Weather permitting I will get some video in operation next weekend.

Rick W

[Windmaster]

Yes of course, I certainly understand that it is just something you put together quickly to try an idea.
But when I said "have you considered" I really meant "do you think its a good idea" - just wanted to get your opinion about finding a way to make it more safe and reliable since you mentioned that it was difficult to control.