My renovation project

[macspeedy]

Hi,

Newbie here, this is my first boat and my first project.

I didnt pay much for the boat and trailer, i am trying to complete this on a very tight budget.

The boat was a 15 foot wooden cuddy, the cabin has been removed to increase the deck space, this was done before i got it. I bought this with pottering about the local small ports and diving and fishing from.

There was damage to the hull in the past and the owner fiber glassed the hull, this has now been removed as all it did was keep the hull wet !

I am in the process of removing all the paint from the hull and inside and drying it out.

I am looking for any advice for good paint and wood prep techniques.

Thanks
Mac !

[PAR]

There are thousands of previous threads here about wood prep and techniques, though it does depend on what you intend on doing with the boat and the methods you plan of employing in her rebuild.

It would be helpful to describe what type of boat, the build method and supply some pictures if possible. Then your proposed plan of attack.

[macspeedy]

sorry for the quality i'll try and get better ones up soon, its that way up for a while ..

[Pericles]

macspeedy,

There is something that you can do with that hull and end up with a new boat. There is a method of boat building called stitch and glue.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=sti...GGL_en___GB351

You could take the lines of the hull by tracing one hull bottom panel, one hull side panel and the outline of the transom onto large pieces of stiff paper. Transfer those outlines, slightly enlarged, onto sheets of marine ply, cut out the two bottom panels, the two side panels and the transom and wire them together draped over your original hull as a strongback. Once you've read about the method, this will make more sense. The new hull panels need to be enlarged by a couple of inches to fit comfortably over the old.

What you will create, will stand you in good stead and serve you well. Good luck.

P

[whitepointer23]

Originally Posted by macspeedy

sorry for the quality i'll try and get better ones up soon, its that way up for a while ..

thats a hartley hull you have there, it was probably dynel sheathed when built , that was a common practice with hartleys. they are a very seaworthy boat and as good as anything available today. look up hartley boat designs on google and you will learn a lot about your boat.

[HakimKlunker]

Originally Posted by Pericles

macspeedy,

There is a method of boat building called stitch and glue.

[P

Basically this is correct. But the costs will probably not be welcome.
Also:
If the boat (or what is left of it) is not rotten or de-stabilized, I would not go this way: it will add weight which will affect handling and performance.
Does it not make more sense to repair and replace damages and next do a proper conservation?

[PAR]

I can't tell if it's a Hartley or not, just not enough to go on in these pictures. It's clearly not sheathed in Dynel, which is good. The sheathing it once had was likely polyester resin and light weight cloth. We all know this stuff just doesn't stick to wood well and the original poster can verify this by telling us how easy it was to remove the sheathing. It was probably coming off in big sheets, simply peeled from the hull in a lot of places, right? Yep, that's polyester on wood for 'ya.

I can tell it's a typical warped bottom from the 60's, judging by it's dead rise and general shape. It would be a fine protected waters and occasion near shore putter around, boat, but sea worthy isn't what I'd call. This hull form will pound when it gets rough, is easily over driven, though it will be relatively efficient (quick to plane off) and easy on fuel.

As has been mentioned, the best thing you can do is strip off the paint you have to, because it's spent, feather back the stuff that still has some life in it, repair what's necessary and repaint the old lass. If it's missing a cabin, you may be in need of some additional athwartship stiffening, so when she's upright again, post some pictures of the insides.

As for wood finishing, there are so many techniques, methods, beliefs, concepts and practices, it would literally be a hefty book to describe them here.

There are several good books that can be found in the book store here, but much depends on what you want to do. A tight budget and a boat repair/restoration just don't mix, my friend. You can low ball some stuff, particularity if you have some skills, but a novice attempting to do a cut rate job, well it's a long shot at best. The novice pays twice as much, just because of mistakes, let alone skill sets.

As a rule, good products (primers, sealants, hardware, paints, varnishes, etc.) cost more. You can use the cheapest of all the options, but you often get what you pay for. As for paints, use the best primer you can afford. Most of us are now using epoxy based primers, just because they work exceptionally well. They even have good water base epoxy primers, that make clean up much easier. Over this the paints in descending order of durability are the solvent based LPU's, next are the water borne LPU's, epoxies are about the same as the WR-LPU's, but oxidize pretty quickly, then come the modified alkyds, next on the list is a tie which are the unmodified alkyds (straight enamels) and modified acrylics (latex), with the unmodified acrylics being last.

The straight acrylics (house paint) are available pretty cheap, but it's not very durable in the marine environment, doesn't have a very high gloss retention and it's abrasion resistance is low. But for $25 a gallon, you might be able to live with it. If you elect to go this route, always use super high gloss. The reason is simple, it's the most water proof. In fact flat acrylics will absorb moisture (so will some primers). Of the low cost acrylics, the best seems to be the ones geared for "porch and deck" use. If you want something other then high gloss paint at least two coats of high gloss, then go over it with the sheen you want.

At the other end of the spectrum are the two part LPU's which easily kick acrylic and enamel butt in every category you measure them (except cost). These are a few hundred dollars per gallon (and up), but they preform like nothing else. They are also hard as hell for a novice to apply well.

This ultimately leaves the enamels (oil based alkyds). They usually cost a little more then the acrylics, but also preform better too. Epoxies are harder, but tend to chalk up pretty quickly.

[Pericles]

HakimKlunker,

When the new larger hull is hardened, it is lifted off the old hull, which acted as a strongback and the new hull is fitted out as needed. The two hulls are not bonded together, except by mistake. The new hull will be lighter than the original.

BS1088 marine ply is not too expensive in the UK, but carefully inspected WBP from Wickes or other is also available.

http://www.wickes.co.uk/bin/venda?ex...search=plywood

Epoxy resins from Rob Hewitt are good products as well.

http://www.epoxy-resins.co.uk/

Cloning another boat and using some of the fixtures from the old boat constitutes a serious restoration and as such, can mean the 5 year RCD rule, courtesy of the EU would not apply.

PAR mentions the warped bottom. Correct that by creating a monohedron line straight through from the bow. Tom Lathrop explains on his site.

http://www.bluejacketboats.com/

For extreme inspiration, try restoring wood ash.

http://www.peterfreebody.com/downloa...ue150_2000.pdf

All together now.

Clone, clone, clone,clone,
Clone,clone, clone,clone,
We're off to see the Wizard,
The wonderful Wizard of Boatz.

P

[whitepointer23]

Originally Posted by PAR

I can't tell if it's a Hartley or not, just not enough to go on in these pictures. It's clearly not sheathed in Dynel, which is good. The sheathing it once had was likely polyester resin and light weight cloth. We all know this stuff just doesn't stick to wood well and the original poster can verify this by telling us how easy it was to remove the sheathing. It was probably coming off in big sheets, simply peeled from the hull in a lot of places, right? Yep, that's polyester on wood for 'ya.

I can tell it's a typical warped bottom from the 60's, judging by it's dead rise and general shape. It would be a fine protected waters and occasion near shore putter around, boat, but sea worthy isn't what I'd call. This hull form will pound when it gets rough, is easily over driven, though it will be relatively efficient (quick to plane off) and easy on fuel.

As has been mentioned, the best thing you can do is strip off the paint you have to, because it's spent, feather back the stuff that still has some life in it, repair what's necessary and repaint the old lass. If it's missing a cabin, you may be in need of some additional athwartship stiffening, so when she's upright again, post some pictures of the insides.

As for wood finishing, there are so many techniques, methods, beliefs, concepts and practices, it would literally be a hefty book to describe them here.

There are several good books that can be found in the book store here, but much depends on what you want to do. A tight budget and a boat repair/restoration just don't mix, my friend. You can low ball some stuff, particularity if you have some skills, but a novice attempting to do a cut rate job, well it's a long shot at best. The novice pays twice as much, just because of mistakes, let alone skill sets.

As a rule, good products (primers, sealants, hardware, paints, varnishes, etc.) cost more. You can use the cheapest of all the options, but you often get what you pay for. As for paints, use the best primer you can afford. Most of us are now using epoxy based primers, just because they work exceptionally well. They even have good water base epoxy primers, that make clean up much easier. Over this the paints in descending order of durability are the solvent based LPU's, next are the water borne LPU's, epoxies are about the same as the WR-LPU's, but oxidize pretty quickly, then come the modified alkyds, next on the list is a tie which are the unmodified alkyds (straight enamels) and modified acrylics (latex), with the unmodified acrylics being last.

The straight acrylics (house paint) are available pretty cheap, but it's not very durable in the marine environment, doesn't have a very high gloss retention and it's abrasion resistance is low. But for $25 a gallon, you might be able to live with it. If you elect to go this route, always use super high gloss. The reason is simple, it's the most water proof. In fact flat acrylics will absorb moisture (so will some primers). Of the low cost acrylics, the best seems to be the ones geared for "porch and deck" use. If you want something other then high gloss paint at least two coats of high gloss, then go over it with the sheen you want.

At the other end of the spectrum are the two part LPU's which easily kick acrylic and enamel butt in every category you measure them (except cost). These are a few hundred dollars per gallon (and up), but they preform like nothing else. They are also hard as hell for a novice to apply well.

This ultimately leaves the enamels (oil based alkyds). They usually cost a little more then the acrylics, but also preform better too. Epoxies are harder, but tend to chalk up pretty quickly.

i grew up around hartleys and i am sure it is a hartley, the bow shape is what gives it away, i sold a hartley sprite a couple of months ago, definately the same shape. there is no glass on it because he said it was removed. if you look up hartleys website you will see that dynel sheathing was an option in the plans, dynel still used poly resin , it just went around corners better than cloth/

[PAR]

There are a lot of hulls that have this shape Whitepointer23. It's a very common hull form and not predominately Hartley. Without looking at the internal structure, it's pure speculation, as you aren't the only one quite familiar with Hartley's.

I'm not sure what Pericles is talking about, in regard to splashing this hull in a taped seam format. He's looking to make repairs on a budget, so building a new hull sounds pretty far out there to me, compared to making some down and dirty repairs and repainting.

Fix it, paint it, splash it . . .

[HakimKlunker]

Originally Posted by Pericles

..., it is lifted off the old hull, which acted as a strongback and the new hull is fitted out as needed. P

Got your idea. I indeed understood a shell on the old shell.

[Pericles]

PAR,

I just reckon it would be quicker and cleaner to wire and bond a few cut sheets of ply together. The surface would take paint better.

The photos of that hull persuade me that there are more cracks in the hull than wrinkles on my forehead.

Ten sheets of structural Birch ply sized at 2240 mm x 1220 mm are £187.00 from Wickes, with £200 for epoxy, glasscloth and some paint; he's quids in, as we say in Blighty.

OTOH, a latex emulsion can be had for not a lot. It's a hull to try this stuff on perhaps, or something similar.

http://www.epms-supplies.co.uk/Admin...DP%20mar06.pdf

P

Addendum: You know, that latex could work on PIR foam. It gives me an idea! Where's my bread saw?

[macspeedy]

Thanks for the feedback guys, boat has been drying out for a while i have been sanding and filling where necessary.

Got the first coat of undercoat primer on yesterday with another today.

I decided to use this

http://www.baysidemarine.co.uk/produ...Ltr_JOTUN-0001

http://www.baysidemarine.co.uk/produ...Ltr_JOTUN-0400

http://www.baysidemarine.co.uk/produ...oodfiller-0014

Its good to see the boat all one colour !

I will get some pics as soon top coat is applied and the hull is the right way up !

Regards,
Mac.

[whitepointer23]

have a look at this pic mac, hartley 15.

[whitepointer23]

par, my father used to fish up to 12 mile offshore in a hartley 15, this included bar crossings and 1 trip to rescue a larger vessel in extremely rough conditions. we fish in bass straight here and pick good days but it can go from calm to 50 knot gales with no warning here. all the hartleys the old man built performed really well. he built a 13ft scamp, 15 flareline, vixen 18 and ripple 22.