Impeller-less Water Jet propulsion

[Yellowjacket]

Tom,

There are three laws of thermodynamics...

The first law says you can't win.... That is, you can't get more energy out of a system than you put in...

The second law says you can't break even... That is every time you change energy from one form to another there are losses....

The third law says there are no loopholes in the first two... (something about absolute zero, but you get the idea)

You are thinking that the air from the atmosphere will just "rush in", and that's true, it will, but only if you pump it out of someplace else first...

Same is true with the Dyson, the air rushes in, but there is a pump to pump air from the low pressure area back up to atmospheric pressure. If you provide a low pressure area for air from the atmosphere to rush into your machine, you have to account for the volume of air that you have pumped from below atmospheric pressure up to atmospheric pressure and that requires work.

There is no such thing as a free lunch.

[tom kane]

Thank`s Yellowjacket,you are trying hard to convince me I can`t have a impeller-less water jet propulsion.Do you have any suggestions as to how this can be done. What you are saying is obvious to most people and much the same as I am saying regarding using air.
There is a suggestion in my diagrams on the pumping water which has not been commented on. Spinning air jets instead of impeller blades,which could spin at very high RPM.and even contrarotating.

Even Quantum Mechanics can be explained in simple language,why not boats.

I am looking for the cheapest lunch possible.

Originally Posted by tom kane

Water jets have limitations in shallow water,sucking up sand,mud,weeds and blocking up..

That is just part of the truth!

A Schottel Pump Jet has no such problem!

Regards
Richard

[SKR]

Dear Tom

Your idea is outdated in the last century. You get a patent, but are not viable. Now replace the blade machines are vortex machine, which often do not have any sort of working bodies. There are only a pulse waves and vibrations.

As you rightly noted:"If Dyson dual cyclone vacuum cleaner took 15 years and 5,127 prototypes to get a marketable device ...."

So here, while there is a hidden part of the work, but it comes in thousands of laboratories around the globe. Soon we see the result. If we show him. As always, first apply in military technology. On nuclear submarines, these devices are already used. Followed by waterjets.

Tell me when the water goes away quickly from the bath, with a vortex funnel or without it? There's your answer, where to look!

[tom kane]

Originally Posted by apex1

That is just part of the truth!

A Schottel Pump Jet has no such problem!

Regards
Richard

If my memory serves me still I think that orginisation built a water jet with two centrifugal pumps combined together at the rear of a boat,well before Hamilton Jet introduced the Axial Flow Water jet. It looked pretty heavy.

[tom kane]

I agree with you SKR it takes a long time for some technology to reach the Public market..if ever,however improvements to the devices may be waiting for new material or more new technology or just finance. In the meantime we have to use what is available or build something for ourselves. I prefer to make something for myself and am not looking for a fortune in return. I think that the Patent and Design system has got out of hand and competition should give way to cooperation.

[tom kane]

Originally Posted by RonL

Tom,

Not sure what I'm looking at

Ron

Our in-house tecno adviser suggested another look at pulse jets to pump air instead of a lobe compressors www.rmcybernetics.com/science/propulsion/jets

[MatthewDS]

@Tom, are you describing an eductor pump?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eductor-jet_pump

[tom kane]

that is right MatthewDS.. there are many variants..Has someone succeded in using similar technology to reasonable propel a boat.

[Fanie]

Hello Tom,

Don't give up yet. I stumbled across a water hammer before where an electric motor is used to turn an impeller that heats the water up and it becomes steam. The system is said to be 70% over unity, which means there are some freeby's. There's a vid on youtube as well. I was wondering if something like this could perhaps add a bit to your performance in some way.

For you guys that think there is no such thing as free energy, think again. The problem is the world governments does not want this - think of the financial impact if they cannot sell you power.

[tom kane]

Thank`s Fanie,there is too much interesting information and innovation to ever loose interest in some subjects such as this. I don`t think I would be expecting to much to have a water jet that is not mechanical in the pump. I would not expect that such a water pump would not get blocked up but removing the damage to blades would be a plus. The answer is already on the drawing board.

[mydauphin]

Having used airlifts for years, using 60hp, 185 cfm compressor to move water, it is very inefficient. It does have advantages but 60hp generates about 10hp using a venturi on a 6 inch pip. It does move a lot of water but a lot of wasted power. We used to clear debris by sucking the bottom of clean of mud. Air against water doesn't work that well.

[RonL]

Compressed air working in conjunction with electricity can give us a little bit of a solution to our energy problems. The one thing air can do that electrical power can't, is absorb heat after it has performed work.
There is a way to use air that will give it an almost equal efficiency to electrical power and it all revolves around where compression takes place and how a system is designed.

Using common or older methods for air pressure work, is a losing effort, yes, but there are possibilities coming to light everyday. The biggest problem seems to me, is people want too much energy, in too small a package.

Sorry Tom if this is going off topic, I just don't want to see compressed air dismissed too quickly.

Ron

[tom kane]

Yes mydauphin,The weight of the atmosphere limits the work these type of pumps can do. I am looking to turbocharge the system somehow,like turbo charging a motor by adding positive pressure in the induction. Using air to replace the impeller blades by actualy pumping the water through the jet pump seems to have potential. Air in water pipes can have shock wave effects. A light weight unit to supply high volume high pressure air would be great.