The Ideal Cruiser - a long range passagemaker

[D'ARTOIS]

OK, an other proposal this is the Van de Stadt 44 - design that can be built in steel, alu and woodcore. many of them are build, by amateurs and profi's - it is one of the preferred designs of the passagemaker: here are the lay outs.

[Wynand N]

re Stadt 44

Overhangs to large for a modern cruiser (looks dated). What we need is a long as possible waterline with some modern "plumbish" bow to maximize interior space. A spin off is extra hull speed in the bargain.

What about a mast that can be easily lowered and raised - a boon where bridges can handicap one's cruising ground and for ease of maintenace.

[safewalrus]

D'artois, nice to see you got the 'non political' thread running (for those unaware this thread started of elsewhere, something to do with phlags? got me confused too).

As the man said depends on the size of the crew - guess two adults and a couple (hopefully maximum of one!) of kids, they crop up on occasion (not complaining was one myself once or twice liked it so much can't wait to get back, but hell they're expensive, I mean like you've got to feed 'em an' they can't do much for years then they won't!)

So watch about it is, that means single hander? (with Kids see above), rig simple and sweet, easy to handle - bald headed schooner looks beautiful, ketch if your that way inclined; traditional hull, don't like modern stuff, too flimsy and the old stuff works. Traditionalist me!

About 45 feet long (40 is a bit small 50 a bit large). Steel for maintainence and they 'bounce' when you hit things - even the best boat handler makes mistakes and, of course, the other guy is .......

Seperate engine compartment (include generating facilities etc). Keep the noise and the stink where it belongs 'outdahouse'.

Possible 'glass oilskin' depending on where your going! Single 'head' and shower.

That's my pennyworth for starters! Look forward to comments

the 'Walrus

[D'ARTOIS]

Agreed, this is a dated design, going back to the early '80-s. So what 's the alternative?
Eric Sponberg brought his concept forward, some time ago, and I am ascertain that it is an easy to boat to sail, for the American-Pacific hemisphere.
A mast that has an opporttunity to be hauled down is a premium for the European waters, with the abundancy of obstacles like solid bridges etc.

So Wynand, can you show us a glimp of what you are designig? Because I am pretty sure that you have your passagemaker ready for the building. Correct?

I have never made a circumnavigation. The max stretch I have done was 2500 nm alltogether.

So let's come in the others and have their feed back as well.

[safewalrus]

appoligies for diving in D'artois as you were typing! Still don't like these modern keel things, bit like multihulls just begging to break off and float away (down). Also prefer two masts, easier to hang out the 'washing' and if you loose a mast you've still got one to put a jury rig up (or a spare aerial, you always loose the most useful bits, so you can't communicate!)

[D'ARTOIS]

Basically Walrus, we are in line, but - and again but - what I wanted was a multinational discussion about long range cruisers and the object is to create a virtual boat that more or less is agreeable to all.

A small example: I have no kids that needs attention, I like to cook, so I need a good galley. Now and than I ave friends boarding. I need a small office in the boat. The schooner I had, was ok, except for the fact that I needed one or two crew to handle her. What you say cuts wood. Not too big, not too small, say 45-46' - I have seen that the interior of US designed yachts varies widely from what we have here in Europe.

Another thing is that I haven't heard anything of our multihull friends. That surprises me because they are very active in other threads/posts.
Hopefully they will join.

[safewalrus]

The original concept of this thread is forming, and it would appear to be going well, but.... mono's and multi's is a bit like 'oil and water' they don't mix! So I guess it might be some time before they raise their heads! Good thing about this thread is it ain't political (where is our 'old' mate "masrapido" anyway? still waving flags?)

However as in most things it's 'horses for courses' to use an old English term or 'one man's meat is another man's poison' etc. etc. However we have to date established a couple of things a] 45 feet is about the right size for the average couple with baggage (whoever or whatever the baggage!) b] Steel seems to be the favoured construction material (that'll get 'em talking)

so onwards and upwards

[Baldur]

40 or 45 footer seems to be way to costly for an average joe. Maybe something more in the line of 25 to 30? Just a thought......

[Packeteer]

45ft is too small, something closer to 60ft would be better

I've just spent a week on a benetau 47ft doing a delivery. We had a total of 4 adults on board and it felt to small. Now if the interior had been designed better it might have been different, but I found it to be overly cramped.

Now as for my ideas for a boat, I've been collecting them for some time and I'd have to agree with some of the ideas already put forth...

65ft x 14ft (long and slim)
twin (bilge) keels
cat rig (Eric Sponberg) or soft wing sail (Ilan Gonen) or combo of both
aft pilot house
seperate engine room (sits under pilot house). diesel electric propulsion
aft swim step/boarding platform
aft sea berths (bunk style), 3 berths each side
forward owners stateroom
seperate forpeak, seperate chain locker, forward and aft sealed bulkheads
single head w/ seperate shower
large fresh water tanks sitting amidships (can form part of furniture)

i've started to draw this up on paper, but I've been busy and haven't finished it yet

[L.DOSSO]

Have a look at my 19.9 m (65 ft)loa aluminum sailing cruiser,which is very beamy (5.4 m (18ft)) and quite shallow draft 2.01 m( 6' 7-1/8''),19 to 20 metric tons,175 sq m total sail (1890 sq ft)

[safewalrus]

Looking at these sizes, remember the idea is long range live-aboard. From experience 30 feet is a bit too small, even in harbour, even if you are on your own! the 60 feet mark is just a bit to unwieldy - you should be able to do most things on your own (give the other person onboard a chance to get some sleep or is the idea to either heave too at dusk and all turn in! a] tis breaking the rules and is bloody stupid, or b] work till you drop 22 hours a day either way you will not reach your destination!)

No, I'm afraid for practicality and cost (does occasionally come into it) if you want to go above 50 feet you either need a motor ship, fully automatic or a crew of half a dozen able bodied people. The other way under 40 feet you either need to live like a Spartan or its weekend passages only - not what we're about here is it?

[FAST FRED]

"What about a mast that can be easily lowered and raised - a boon where bridges can handicap one's cruising ground and for ease of maintenace."

The co that make flag pole lifting assembies have fine geared rack & pinion lifts that are made in aluminum.Deck mount & crank away!

Simplest tho is the "lutchett" where a tabernakle is pivoted at about boom hight and the heel of the mast tilts up thru a long foward hatch.
The mast is keel stepped and carries weights to counterbalance the weight of the rig.

Sure would play havoc with most interior designs tho.

FAST FRED

[safewalrus]

Yeah, sounds good! Just one little question. We're talking 40 to 60 feet long boats here think of the size of mast needed for those, this includes weight etc. who's the big guy going to crank the handle for that? or do we (again have a big crew - lots of fore deck gorillas?) Also if you've got all these people were do we put the stores etc. Someone ain't thinking about logistics are they?

[Packeteer]

Originally Posted by safewalrus

the 60 feet mark is just a bit to unwieldy

how so?

if it is set up correctly, then it should be no problem most of the time (crossing oceans is always a good time to get extra crew)

either way, I'd like 65ft because at minimum I will have 2 adults and 2 kids on board

[Packeteer]

btw, most of my ideas come from Dashew designs (setsail.com)

i think that guy really has his head screwed on the right way when it comes to cruising boats