The Ideal Cruiser - a long range passagemaker

[stewi]

My own design has the components I like to see in my ideal cruising boat.
Swing keel, which is not that obvious when you sit in the saloon. Inside steering, sea berth right next to it.
I need only one head, which is accessible from the main saloon and from the aft cabin.
Free-standing masts are at least considered, however, I don’t like the idea that I need a crane or a suitable bridge to get the mast down.
The boat should go to sea at least for island hopping, but also motor well in rivers in US or Europe.

[Vega]

Originally Posted by Guillermo

Nice looking boat, Vega. Congratulations.
Some doubts:
- I find it has a too small room around the engine, to my taste.
- I do not understand well the layout astern. It seems to be a couple of "lost" spaces (?)
- I favor a second inside full-view steering position, seeming not possible here.
- Genoa and cutter sail's stays fixings at the top of the mast, seem to bo not properly located.
- Maybe fix rigging is somewhat redundant?
- What are the intended motor and sailing performance?

.

Thanks.
No. No lost spaces. I have doubts about some things, not about space.
This is a slim boat and interior of slim boats is hard to design, particularly astern.
In this boat, at port side you have a large room with seating headroom, with lots of storage and on starboard you have a large head with separate shower. Through the shower you have access to a large storage space with a large cabinet that can also be used as a small workshop. You also have access to this space through the upper living space, lifting the starboard settee.

The upper space can be used as a living place with a view, or when sailing as the command post of the boat (full view all around), besides the exterior one. The chart table, the radar and plotter will be there, as well as a second command of the boat. Yes there is even a proper settee with lateral hold, that can be reversed giving way to a sea berth (that’s why there are two pictures of the upper interior of the boat). The boat could have a second wheel, but if I can have a mechanical steering I will gladly change that by a joystick linked to a good auto-pilot. I have hated all the hydraulic steering I have tried.

Astern the boat has also plenty of storage accessed by the exterior, access portside, access starboard side and one astern, with space for the life raft (pulled out mechanically) and fenders.

About the rigging, that's just a general idea. Not the sails, that are quite definitive.

About propulsion, I think that 60hp is enough, but if possible I will go with 75hp.

About performance, it will be a fast (and safe) boat, for a cruiser. It will reach very easily hull speed. Motoring cruising speed should be of 8knots.

Some data:

S/D 23.8 D/L 174 B/D 39% Mt/Cf -32 D 12,3T

[Guillermo]

Nice motorsailer, Vega.
Are you going to build it?

[Vega]

Guillermo, I am not going to build it, but it is possible that someone will build it for me. It depends both on the possibility of having someone qualified designing the technical and structural part of the boat not for a lot of money (none better than Mr Koopmans himself) and on the total cost of bulding such a boat.
Future will tell.
About Galiza, it is possible that I will cruise there next summer. Do you live there? What is your home port?

[Guillermo]

VEGA:
I live in Pontevedra, where I have my boat for the winter. In summer I bring her to Aguete, an small village only a dozen of kilometers away, on the south coast of the Ria. I will be most glad to meet you in Galiza whenever you come. You may find my office address and phone numbers at my Motorsailers and Motorsailing web site.

[ronaldaya]

use to build cars custom but i like wood for its ease of use and comford has any one thought of some of the older designs like bill garden and phil l rhodes thunderhead or sister ship rowina a bit short but one nice design or t brewers sophia christina or the larger tree of life. hand's tornado 45 ft. i would also put a pilot house like rhodes on the sophia as out west and as old as i am i kind of like the wind over my head at times i just think these are some nice sail boats. i also like the long keel for safety i don't want to race but injoy the ride with my bad back i also thing long and heavy.

[brian eiland]

Originally Posted by Vega

....First let me say I like the koopmans classical look, but not so much the hull and the weight.

What do you think of it?

I've not had time to look thru this subject thread, but upon a quick view I must say I like your design at posting #219 .

It reminds me a bit of one of Eric Sponberg's designs, Bagatella, that I thought was very pleasing for a plum bow design. I'd like to see this done in a twin-keel version for cruising.

http://www.sponbergyachtdesign.com/Bagatelle.htm

[brian eiland]

Hello Mark, Stick to you guns lad, I like this concept of a marriage between the PowerKeel hull concept and Paine's Steadysailer design. It certainly offers the 'sailing alternative' to Dashew's FPB concept.

And I think we will see more of these long-range passagemaker ideas evolve as the new world order of fuel prices become reality.

And just to add more spice to the discussions I will reference this subject thread on a few other similar discussion threads.

Have a look at this new thread:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?p=95771

[Vega]

Originally Posted by brian eiland

I've not had time to look thru this subject thread, but upon a quick view I must say I like your design at posting #219 .

It reminds me a bit of one of Eric Sponberg's designs, Bagatella, that I thought was very pleasing for a plum bow design. I'd like to see this done in a twin-keel version for cruising.

Thanks Brian. Yes you are right. There is no way out of it, if you want speed and good initial stability to carry a lot of sail area, you have to have a big draft….or a catamaran

That’s no good for cruising, lots of places that you can not visit, lousy ability to look for shelter when you know that a hurricane is on the way. A twin keel is certainly a solution, but I am working on the same lines of Bagatella, and I have chosen a lifting keel.

I didn't reply because I was almost finishing the general drawing of that boat, and I would like to post it and have your opinion about it, but it seems that small things keep poping up...and well, it is still not finished

As I hope to build the boat I will eventually develop, and as I don’t know enough, I prefer to work over an existing and proven hull, alter what I don’t like and eventually have an agreement with the designer of the hull to have the boat altered that way.

I am working around this hull, trying to transform what is a very fast but also radical boat in a comfortable, safe and fast pilot house oceangoing cruiser, with very low draft.

[JunkBoatDesign]

Is a oversize Steering wheel will have better control in a long range cruiser? Is it advisable to install in a Junk Boat?

[Vega]

Originally Posted by JunkBoatDesign

Is a oversize Steering wheel will have better control in a long range cruiser? Is it advisable to install in a Junk Boat?

If it is oversized it means that it is not needed, but big does not mean oversized.

If you have a hydraulic system you don’t need a big wheel. If it is a mechanic system and it is a sporty or big boat with lots of sail, than it is possible that it would need a big wheel, or a muscled and tough pilot.

True two steering stations boats normally use a hydraulic system, unless it is used on the interior station a simplified steering station working through the autopilot and with a joystick.

[Redsky]

i read a lot of comments about running aground on what i thought was the last page of the thread and some people kind of saying it doset happen a lot well here is pictures of a good example 70 ' wood boat 8 knots + rock
http://www.islandeagle.net/summer2005/breanna personally i think he needs a new boat because it looks like a smashed keel to me.

[FAST FRED]

Is a oversize Steering wheel will have better control in a long range cruiser? Is it advisable to install in a Junk Boat?

The big wheel is ordinarily for the helmsman to be able to operate on either tack. With the huge beam of the "racing" boats the oversized wheel is lighter than 2 steering stations , one port & one stbd.

On a cruiser the self steering , or autopilot , or lashjed helm will be doing most of the work.
Only time you will be at the helm is docking , or perhaps during sail changes if the boat is too crank to be controlled automatically.

FAST FRED

[brian eiland]

I thought it might be appropriate to include a short excerpt from the mission statement of SteadySailer (kind of fits the "long range passagemaker" theme of this thread):

"The Paine STEADYSAILER is a name we have coined for this new type of yacht. With that name, you'd expect her to be a motoryacht with a steadying sail, and she is certainly that. But she's also a whole lot more. She is the embodiment of the term Motorsailor. She is designed and optimized for motorsailing, which is what the majority of pure cruising sailboats do much of the time anyway. All experience sailors know what a huge difference in speed is made just by having the engine ticking over slowly when under sail, or the sails up and drawing when under power. The PAINE STEADYSAILER is intended to always have the engine running, so that the yacht travels at a given speed (say 10 knots) at ALL TIMES, no matter the state of the wind. Thus she will make good 240 nautical miles per day, or over 1000 statute miles every four days, no matter what. STEADY speed, rather than the presence of a steadying sail, is what gives this design its name"

[Eric Sponberg]

Many thanks to Brian Eiland for posting images of my design Bagatelle and noting its features relative to this thread. I should point out that Bagatelle is a daysailer and weekender and not meant for ocean cruising. However, if its dimensions were expanded to a bigger boat that would have the carrying capacity for an ocean voyage, then it would work. Of course, it would be more boat to handle in heavier conditions.

I have been away from this thread for some time because it looked like it was going around in circles. I was right, like D'Artois said above, it has come full circle--again.

I am struck by the similarities of Vega's design above to my Globetrotter 45 which was discussed at the beginning of the thread. The general flavor is the same, but Vega's has a cutter rig and a conventional transom. I firmly believe in the desireability of the features in the Globetrotter 45, and I think the whole design makes loads of sense for a long-range passagemaker.

Eric