Build a power boat, power by wind. PART II

[windboat]

Of course it is cheaper & efficent to use sail only. But, sail can not store wind energy. This project is to develop Know How to build a useful yacht powered by wind energy(renewable energy). A full size experiment yacht is strong proof of
Convinces to the public.

[Mick@itc]

Malcolm Tennent has an actual design like this
Mick

[windboat]

a WAVE POWER BOAT was built, wind boat is true without question.

[windboat]

Is there any founndation will hejp this kind of project raised by personal unit?
Even it is a 1:10 scale modle, it still need reserch and man power to accomplish.

[kerosene]

what do you mean by foundation?

Start by establishing SOR- statement of requirements. Use numbers from existing boats to get into the ball park. Adjust as needed. Then start figuring out what needs to change to accommodate the unconventional power plant.

Then do honest comparison. This is likely to reveal that your idea is without any practical merits. The price of the system would buy fuel for many times more miles than the wind system ever would without other obvious setbacks like ridiculously short range, compromised weight distribution, cumbersome plan etc.

But hey I guess pc paint profile views should be enough to attract investors.

[kerosene]

oh I get now - you mean a a foundation to grant money?

I hope not. Your plan is not sensible. It can be easily confirmed to not be sensible with very simple calculations. I seriously hope that any one considering giving money will be qualified enough to ask the right questions.

[windboat]

The sailboat was invented 8000 years ago. And , they do sail around the globe few hundreds years ago. All the sailboat need is wind. First come first
served. The sailboat(windboat) will take lead in using renewable energy.

[mydauphin]

Originally Posted by windboat

The sailboat was invented 8000 years ago. And , they do sail around the globe few hundreds years ago. All the sailboat need is wind. First come first
served. The sailboat(windboat) will take lead in using renewable energy.

No one is going to give you money for you to build a boat with a big propeller on top. Well may be the government will, they spend money on all kinds of dumb things, but they give it to universities that give it a fancy name and have 5 professors write books on it. The sailboat is as old as people, and actually all boats are sailboats. The wind blows everything around. If you want to build this thing and want someone else to pay for it, best join a university or government program. Warning though, they don't have a lot of money to waste on these types of projects right now.

Actually it might be easier to get funding to study why it wouldn't work.
See if you have big propeller making wind resistance and turning it to mechanical energy then storing to electrical, then chemical energy.
There is a loss along the way, and you have to hold boat in place to absorb wind energy. So that means anchoring or at a dock. Then you release boat and use store energy to go forward.

But if wind is against you chance are you are just going to go with the wind, thus power waste and no forward travel and no wind power being generated.

The windmill will always generate more wind drag than the power it generates. Welcome to physics... you get nothing for free.

[kerosene]

mudauphin - I generally agree with your post and think the best thing for the windboat poster would indeed to study naval architecture.

But propeller does not allways create more drag than it can create thrust. It will always take power energy than it can deliver but power is not same as thrust. Thrust depends on the relative speeds so the power can be "geared" to create more thrust than the drag. Not sure if you followed the huge FTTWDDW discussions but this was big part of it.

Anyway there are several boats that are set with turbine to prop and they can go directly upwind. These things don't change the feasibility of this boat.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by windboat

welecome positive post & Q , ONLY

okay, put a modern efficient diesel "back-up" motor for recharging batteries or powering the prop when batteries are low, and than you would have a viable boat.

You will not save energy if it runs aground and breaks up on a lee shore because the battery power was not enough to get it clear of shoals.

With a conventional diesel "back up" drive you can demonstrate it is viable even without reliable sunshine or wind power since it will reduce total fuel requirement for the times you can run "green", reduce fuel requirement of just 10%, 20% or more is a very large improvement over conventional.

You can also consider propane powered engine, it has about 20 percent less CO2 output and right now propane is about half the cost of diesel. The practical problem with propane is there are no fueling facilitates at most dockside fuel stops.

[windboat]

I should promote our idea to goverments and Non-profit organization. Could anybody name some? Regarding putting big windturbine on top of boat,
create drag or thrust. Our solution is computerized and telespoic windturbine. That is same reason with F-117 Nighthawk could fly.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by windboat

.. Our solution is computerized and telespoic windturbine. That is same reason with F-117 Nighthawk could fly.

Not quite: all jet aircraft have a Ram Air Turbine (RAT) emergency back-up power supply in case of total system failure. All that does is allow instruments and radios to work so they can get off a mayday and a prayer, as airplane falls out of the sky. These are pop-out wind turbines that only deploy in a total system failure, not to power the aircraft. IF the F117 loses power the pilot must punch "emergency system meltdown" control that will destroy all classified military equipment on board the aircraft and than pilot must punch out. Total flame out in most modern military aircraft means complete loss of control and death if pilot does not punch out successfully.

No aircraft, the F117 or otherwise, would operate with the RAT deployed, it creates a lot of drag, way more than the power it generates. And it would never be a "stealth" aircraft with a windmill rotating out in the airstream. At that point is just wreckage waiting to hit the ground.

Your proposed wind mill powered boat could likely be made to operated over very limited range and speeds. Mostly it would have to store energy for hours as it sat at anchor in a breeze, to allow it to motor for 30-40 min at 1-2 knots.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by Petros

With a conventional diesel "back up" drive you can demonstrate it is viable even without reliable sunshine or wind power since it will reduce total fuel requirement for the times you can run "green", reduce fuel requirement of just 10%, 20% or more is a very large improvement over conventional.

Windturbine systems make the boat otherwise less efficient (weight of batteries, drag of turbines, other extra systems needed, impacts on hull design). Your suggestion would almost certainly result in more diesel burnt compared to diesel only solution.

Also lead acid batteries don't last long in this application - so in 2yrs you have 3000kg of used lead acid batteries. Such a novel concept...

And lastly this is a discussion forum. Poster can't decide that they only want one type of responses.

[windboat]

if you use diesel engine there will be 22,500kg co2 in the Air in 2years.
3000kgs Lead acid battery could be recycled easier

[daiquiri]

Originally Posted by windboat

if you use diesel engine there will be 22,500kg co2 in the Air in 2years. 3000kgs Lead acid battery could be recycled easier

This calculus is not correct, because it is not that simple. If you are worried about CO2 emission, than a correct approach would be to:

A) for the diesel engine:

1) calculate the crude-oil and water footprint of the overall process of manufacturing of the required diesel engine
2) calculate the crude-oil and water footprint of the process of manufacturing and then burning of one liter of diesel fuel
3) calculate the yearly fuel consumption in liters
4) Get the crude-oil and water footprint by the equation F(A) = a.1 + a.2*a.3*N

where N is the number of years considered. F(A) are actually two separate equations, one for the crude-oil footprint and one for water. The CO2 footprint follows from the crude oil quantity.

B) for the wind turbine:

1) calculate the crude-oil and water footprint of the overall process of manufacturing of the required wind turbine and batteries (taking into account the need to periodically substitute them), considering that diesel fuel will be extensively used in that process too
2) get the crude-oil and water footprint by the equation CO2(B) = B.1

The net footprint saving is given by F(A) - F(B), and the CO2 is calculated from the crude-oil quantities. If the difference is a positive number, you have made an environmentally-friendly vessel, otherwise you haven't.