Boat Design Forums  |  Boat Design Directory  |  Boat Design Gallery  |  Boat Design Book Store  |  Thanks to Our Site Sponsors

Go Back   Boat Design Forums > Design > Powerboats
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Most Recent Posts Gallery Images Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #16  
Old 08-02-2011, 03:06 PM
Tanton Tanton is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rep: 294 Posts: 814
Location: Newport RI
Nm.

Well. Something in common is the lack of commercial success. Despite the fact the 32 footer is an Award Winning Design.
Look, is in the beholder, but I think that J-V missed on that one, compared to some of their other designs.
I admire most the one built by Ocea.
Reply With Quote


  #17  
Old 11-11-2011, 06:52 AM
bernd1972 bernd1972 is offline
Holzwurm
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Rep: 88 Posts: 66
Location: Laboe, Germany
Well, Longcours62, I believe the issue with your concept is that it really lacks some appealing styling. Itīs certainly perfect for itīs purpose and there are very few powercruisers in that size range that are capable of doing the french canals. However, your design is very reasonable from the engineering point of view. But it strongly reminds me of a river police vessel from the 1950s, but without some nice curves to superstructures.
If you tend to go retro you should at least pronounce that retro-aspect consequently.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-12-2011, 09:23 AM
bertho bertho is offline
bertho
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rep: 59 Posts: 175
Location: asean archipelago
gents,
I think we all agree about the to much "pure"efficiency about this boat, but only regarding building cost and operation. but if you want to seduce any other than a " basic puriste" they are very rare.. a boat need have a little sexy or seducing look !, is not and engineering mistake, just a marketing problem, probably some more $$ on the topside design will change all .. so.. do a boat like this one for yourself, you will be happy and right, but don't expect to much doing any commercial business with... just my point of view.
it's probably and good and efficient hull shape
anyway, enjoy cruising ! you are somewhere right !
kenavo
bertho
i don't apologize anymore for my frenchglish.. :-) !

www.fusionschooner.blogspot.com
__________________
creating and building simple boat is much more difficult than complicated ones.....
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-12-2011, 12:15 PM
longcours62's Avatar
longcours62 longcours62 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rep: 57 Posts: 83
Location: France
Thanks for your answers and we are enjoying cruising with our 'mistic boat'( as they wroote in Norvegian newspaper!!)
It is good to know we are not 100% wrong !
But just some interogation because you said 'more curves' and better 'topside drawing' (you are true both !!) but take a look at the photos below : less curves ,no 'sexy design ' of the topsides and ... they find customers !!
We know the look is too near the 'merchand ships' look, our very first design was very near the 1920 era designs : double ender,big vertical funnel, vertical wheelhouse and wide boody (I copy a 70' wooden boat built in 1930) but my wife wanted more curves and she said : "you are too old for playing at Tintin or Cpt Hadhock "http://i.pbase.com/g6/83/462483/2/84032730.Zb8SXnF4.jpg
http://dieselducks.com/44%20Duck%20n...old%2044-1.jpg


And We still apolozige for our english !!
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-12-2011, 12:54 PM
bernd1972 bernd1972 is offline
Holzwurm
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Rep: 88 Posts: 66
Location: Laboe, Germany
I believe to understand your boatīs concept quiter well. Thatīs what I built. And if you make it to the north of Germany you should contact me and come over for a few glasses of wine and some talk about boats. http://www.my-marlin.de
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-12-2011, 05:42 PM
cyclops2 cyclops2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Rep: 94 Posts: 244
Location: New Jersy
A REAL impartial Boat Buyer for a guests boat.

I took my wife to several 2002 boatshows. Told her pick anything you like that does not exceed 19' overall length.
She LOVES old woodies to ride in.

She fell in love with a Chaparral 186 SSI. It is 18 1/2' long X 8' wide.

Why did she pick it ???????????

It was only avaible in white with black trim....had fantasticly comfortable chairs with flip up bolsters.... the full width rear seat.....full width & depth of the stern, sun deck in white material... Most important ..Cut pile snap in & out carpet sections....


NO WAY would I have picked a boat based on her standards, for her.
She REALLY would have been suprised if I tried to suprise her.

To pick the features in a boat that a NON boating person wants............Is totally impossible for experienced boat companies.........You are too biased.

The NEW inexperienced buyers are all over the place in their standards.

Good luck.

This is a first hand observation of NON BOATING buyers.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-12-2011, 09:10 PM
masalai masalai is offline
masalai
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Rep: 1847 Posts: 6,854
Location: cruising, Australia
longcours62
It all depends on your market research... Cyclops seems to have nailed it - as to whom you should market... Sell to the ladies and push that they should be more proactive in their needs and requirements... and a good builder will cater for that.........

Go for an international trip to regions where you feel there is potential sales... What do you see?

The small trailerable "tinnies", as we call 4m to 7m aluminium power boats, get used often and are to be found up rivers and creeks catching fish and crabs, with the occasional fair weather trip a bit offshore looking for the bigger fish

Most larger boats 8M and up may, "look-good", have a cruising range of 200 or so miles, guzzle fuel and are no good for long passages where marinas are not spaced every 50 to 100 miles... - - In Australia, these boats are to be found in marinas, absolutely FULL of "Show-pieces", - that would be used maybe for 2 weeks in a year and the owner full of regret, confusion and longing...

I like your style better - but I am not a buyer... I built my own... http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boa...ace-25962.html and as I am feeling the limitations of my age, my sense of adventure is diminishing, am hamstrung by an ANTI-boat partner, - - - I am really confused and at a loss... as I like long distance travel / exploration and the live-aboard cruising lifestyle...
__________________
Try to be helpful...
Remember that there are at least two sides for every story...
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-13-2011, 08:38 AM
cyclops2 cyclops2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Rep: 94 Posts: 244
Location: New Jersy
Mar keting

With todays Wall Street & National Banking crooks running the country into the ground.

There IS ONLY the super rich out there DEMANDING you build at a price that puts you out of bussiness.

I am 73. So I to have lost the uncontrollable urge to impress my self with a boat, Corvette, vacation house.

Not only is the poor & reduced middle class being robbed on all purchases. But the rich & very rich have been robbed by Wall Street also. When they lose their money, NO ONE takes them in sociallly.

If you can figure out what to build. Fantastic. I sure as Hell could not pick out a new design in a smaller company.

Custom DESIGNED to my specifications.... is all that would interest me with the current forcast for the next several years.

Washington extortionists are going to become more crooked as money becomes more scarce around the world. Political fund rasing is almost totally done on the Futures & Commodities ripoff market.
Deregulation really means, DECRIMINALIZING PRICE FIXING on a world wide level.

If employees tried to change wages like the USA congress allows Wall street to do, they would be arrested for trying to over throw the country.

How the Devil can anyone pick a design in that scenerio.

Good luck in a VERY tough time. My best to all in a VERY enjoyable bussiness over my lifetime.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-13-2011, 12:44 PM
longcours62's Avatar
longcours62 longcours62 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rep: 57 Posts: 83
Location: France
Thanks for your support ,but we already became more realistics : we stop trying to built sister ship AND we stop buying (French) shares ...We already lost on both !!!
But if you see somewhere our strange boat come on board we still have some French wine and Cognac on board
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-14-2011, 05:34 PM
bertho bertho is offline
bertho
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rep: 59 Posts: 175
Location: asean archipelago
longcours,
how many miles did you log already with your boat ?
as per your experience now, I you have to "do it again " what will be the improvement you will suggest for a similar long range / economical motorboat (not talking about aesthetic of point view ) but size/speed/capacity/and so ..

witch part of the world are you now ? (just curious, not for the cognac !! :-) ! )
cheer's
bertho
__________________
creating and building simple boat is much more difficult than complicated ones.....
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-15-2011, 03:37 AM
longcours62's Avatar
longcours62 longcours62 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rep: 57 Posts: 83
Location: France
We had note a lot of improvements from the small details (remote control of engine 15 cm nearest the center line ) to 'big' change like engine room aft.
When we make the design of arrangement we are thinking friends or family will come on board and we want 2 forwards cabin and great 'deck salon'.
With the engine room aft we lost near 4 m of arrangements but keep the noise of propulsion train far aft and it is a real walk in engine room.!(but in another hand not too much aft for trying to keep propellers in the water in bad conditions.)
In this case the topsides will be shortened for just one wheelhouse with small 'salon'(in another hand the salon and kitchen have not external view and became smaller...always compromise; and the volume of topside decrease from 36m3 to 26 m3 in case of capsize it could be more difficult to recover the right position...).
In this new configuration you save weight on the roof and lowered all the weight of kitchen and salon you can save on the ballast to (for a 19,99 m oal we could stay at around 29 T).
We are thinking to have tunnels for propellers for keep the maximum draft egal at the hull draft in this case need two rudders (more exposed to hit wood,ice or wreck).
And maybe more beam at the transom (but maybe we will lost in efficiency ?)
I will try to scan the 'next project' (if we sold this one! )and joint .
The 'main' problem with our actual boat it is his 'too high' stability and the roll period : 2,6 sec (without mast sail and rigging)
but it is difficult to have a great stability curve and small stability .
Actually we are staying for one year in Germany for year ,normally next year we will heading north .
Or if we sold her go back to Vietnam for built the next one (France is definitely too expensive for us).
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-15-2011, 04:07 AM
longcours62's Avatar
longcours62 longcours62 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rep: 57 Posts: 83
Location: France

As you can see very similar design exept the beamier transom, the tunnels and 'redan'at the water line
19,902m loa,19,20 pp, beam 4,98 m, draft 1 m
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-15-2011, 08:43 AM
longcours62's Avatar
longcours62 longcours62 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rep: 57 Posts: 83
Location: France
I will try to give a more complete answer to your question .

For work with the boat (charter) we already make a design at 20,80 exactly same (ugly!?) profile with 4 cabins an 2 toilettes forward .

But for personal use what we will change ?

In the hull drawing :
- boat loa lengthened to just under 20 m : 19,902 m
- longer waterline : 19,20 m
- tunnels for propellers
- may be 2 rudders (if we can’t keep one )
- ‘redan’ at the waterline in the hope to damp the roll quicker
- the transom little more beamy (if not too much bad effects on the wake)
- keep the maximum draft(propellers and ruder) at the hull draft around 1 meter

In the deck design :
- just a short roof of 4,85 m (actually 8,20 m )for wheelhouse/small deck saloon
the wheel became very near to the motion center and also the lateral center of windage (I am not sure it is the right terms!!?) become near the lateral center of the under water area.
- bigger aft windlass for aft anchor
- the first steep a the transom near the waterline
May be don’t keep the daggers boards (it will save 800kg) but more drift or more angle of the rudder when take the wind by side .

In engine room :
-smaller engines the same (Perkins 6 cylinders) but atmo 130 cv will be largely enough (and save $$).
- engine room aft, less noisy, real walk-in , ( engine room behind 3 bulkhead but lost 3m in arrangements’ )
- workshop between engine room and aft cabin toilets, can fit here equipments sensible to hot (water maker, batteries, inverter) and let in engine room just engines, water heater and heater(like Kabola)
- may be biggers days tanks around 2 x 250 lt
- engine with dry exhaust and cooling by ‘hull tanks’ ( no more trouble with plastic, ice, leaves …etc)
- in case of damage of the seal on sterntube (oil lubrificated) , one grease pump ready to use .
- diesel tanks of 7500 lt it’s too much for cross an ocean ,but it’s good for refueling at the best cost …

In the boat :
- double glazing everywhere
- ticker insulation (actually average 8 cm + ’multilayer !?) may be spray 12 cm of polyurethane foam on all the hull (may be in case off flooding the top of the wheelhouse could stay above the sea level …)
- spray paint with cork on all ‘visible alloy part like potholes ,hatches …
we could save :
- 850 kg in the arrangements
- 200 kg in the roof
- 1800 kg remove from the ballast (all the weight of the kitchen/deck saloon, floor, cupboard, etc lowered by 0,870 m ), ( diesels thanks all under water line)
- 630 kg less if no daggers boards with her ‘box’.
Finally we could have one boat fully loaded for around 29 T and a D/L of 114.
if not too much drag with propeller’s tunnels, beamier transom and the ’new’ chine near water line the boat could keep a good ‘fuel efficiency’.

May be (little) smaller and lighter boats like the nice Tad Robert 56 could make the same passages . But just the weight of our (strong) hull is 11600 kg and we don’t know built light, and just the weight of our (empty !?) bottles …
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:18 PM
bernd1972 bernd1972 is offline
Holzwurm
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Rep: 88 Posts: 66
Location: Laboe, Germany
High initial stability is an issue typical for this type of boat, itīs strong and reliable as hell, but tends to roll "a little" in a beam sea. And with 20m x 3,9m, 1m draft and 18tons I know very well what you mean with that short rolling period. My boat does not care about waves of 1m (cuts through them like a bullet), but these tiny swells in port can become annoying from time to time...
And if you come to the baltic sea through the Kiel canal let me know. And plan a day in Laboe, at the east shore of the Kiel Fjord. ;-)
Reply With Quote


  #30  
Old 11-15-2011, 05:41 PM
sabahcat's Avatar
sabahcat sabahcat is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rep: 273 Posts: 793
Location: australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by longcours62 View Post
Or if we sold her go back to Vietnam for built the next one
Where in Vietnam and what issues did you have moving the boat around in their waters?
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Searching for fuel efficient powerboat Chuck Losness Powerboats 140 08-19-2013 01:46 PM
Looking For Partner And To Sell Molds JOHNSONFIREHAWK Boat Molds 2 01-23-2011 01:07 PM
Sell Me Your Molds pirmehookrick Marketplace 0 04-02-2010 10:34 PM
How to sell a boat? stephendehong Marketplace 2 07-26-2007 05:50 PM
can anyone sell me a 2ndhand Vectorworks? laser Software 0 04-06-2004 10:25 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Web Site Design and Content Copyright ©1999 - 2014 Boat Design Net