What to build?

I'm new to the forum and excited to have the opportunity to join a community of such experienced, knowledgeable builders. I am looking to build a medium sized fishing boat for use under power in the Potomac river and the Chesapeake Bay. I am thinking of something around 19' with a center console and an outboard in the 30-50 hp range. I really want a good, strong, serviceable boat for fishing (for eating more than sportfishing so flounder, croakers, yellow perch, and stripped bass) and crabbing. I might also do some pleasure cruising to explore the bay. I will mostly be using this boat by myself though I hope to also take my son and wife out occasionally for some fishing and cruising. The boat would be trailered. Seaworthiness, utility, efficient operation, ability to function in shallow and deep water are my primary concerns for this boat. I have found two designs I like from Spira International. One is a PC style dory called Albion. http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_albi.html The other is a V-bottom Carolina dory called Hatteras. http://www.spirainternational.com/hp_hatt.htmlI am really attracted to the PC (or Pacific Power) design because of the wide beam and apparent square footage of the deck. The bateau.com website also has some really nice looking boats, particularly the Fast skiff 17. http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=FS17 I like Glen-L's Little Hunk. https://www.boatdesigns.com/18-Little-Hunk-power-fishing-dory/products/531/And I also really like the sound of the Tolman skiff, though it's tough to find out much regarding expense and build difficulty. My concern is one of comfort. The more pleasant the experience riding around, the more likely my wife would be to come out. I have heard bad things about ride comfort in flat-bottomed boats. My other concern is build difficulty. Would building the V-shape be considerably more difficult? My experience with boats is quite limited (aluminum boats with 10 hp outboards on small Florida lakes as a kid). My experience woodworking is far greater, but I am certainly not an expert. I have built cabins, sheds, and furniture and am comfortable with tools. My final concern is one of expense and time. Ultimately, I think I'll want to get out on the water as soon as possible. I am planning on building an 11' row boat prior to the bigger boat to gain some experience. Any suggestions? If you know of another boat specifically or another type of boat that you believe would better serve my needs, by all means, please tell me about it.

 

This is one of mine, it's about as simple a boat to build as they get. It can be spruced up with a couple of optional lapped planks and there's a heavy duty version as well, for those that like to bash into stuff.

The bottom is 1" thick on the regular version, which makes the boat feel better then most in her general class. More details can be found > http://www.woodenboat.com/boatplansandkits/Digger-17-557.html <

In the size range you are looking, there are hundreds of designs to choose from so don't make a quick decision. The ideal boat would be one that doesn't take a half a decade to complete, doesn't suck fuel like a 35' Winnebago, is easy to repair, doesn't need a big engine to get you scooting along pretty good and looks good to your eye.

Pounding in a flat bottom boat is a sign the boat doesn't like what you're doing and is trying to tell you to throttle back a touch or change course so she doesn't have to eat the chop in her teeth. V bottoms are harder to build, but can offer more too. Personally, I think you're looking for too big a boat, which is why I've shown you Digger 17. When you get up in size, launching and recovery can become much more difficult.

 

I agree, anything 16ft and up will handle fairly bad bay type weather. 16-17ft is about the max size you can comfortably handle yourself, with a well set up trailer too.

Regards, Andrew.

 

I have thoughts about building a skiff too but I want one longer (23-27') and narrower w a BLR of around 1-4. I have a couple of design ideas of my own but I'm still drawn to Atkin's boats. And I don't think a long skiff should be much more difficult to handle on a trailer but I was once a truck driver and I now live in Alaska atkinboatplans.com
Russell R would be a good boat for Potomac (especially w wife aboard) but I think it may be a tad more involved to build than than the less sophisticated designs linked by Potomac however Russell R should be extremely pleasant to be aboard underway and at rest compared to lighter, wider and less curvy boats. I prefer a boat with curved sides AND a rockered bottom as well. All of Atkins flat bottomed boats are thus ...as I recall.
PAR,
I see your'e Digger's bottom is rockered fwd and straight aft. How would the ride and performance change if one put the rocker aft and the straight/flat part fwd? I would assume it would porpoise and pound at high speed but ride better and be more efficient at low/moderate speeds.

 

I would have the greatest difficulty believing any flat bottomed skiff is going to be comfortable in even a slight chop. How about substituting the dead flat bottom for one with constant slight vee, say 8-10 degrees throughout. That would be fairly easy to build. A square nosed vee-bottom punt would probably be a better option again, IMO, and more stable.

 

Rocker aft will require more incidence angle before plane. If enough rocker is used, raising the buttock angle over say 4 degrees, then you can forget about getting up on plane. Yes, it's low speed efficiency would improve, but marginally so, unless the transom was "uncovered", but you'd be restricted to very low S/L ratios and you wouldn't plane.

Flat bottom boats have a bad reputation because of really crappy flat bottom designs. The many thousands of aluminum and 'glass garveys and jon boats, not to mention the several other types of hull form, prove the type can be done well, though in the same vain, they can also suck bad. The usual issues are the design is just too darn wide and the other is the skipper it too darn inexperienced. another issue is some designs carry the beam too far forward. Without a fair bit of experience, it's hard for the average person to know what's a good design from the less desirable ones. There are good design elements and they are fairly well understood among trained designers, not so much among the self taught or FreeShip crowd. Some think since it's a flat bottom boat it must be a simple design, but it's easy to screw one up, if you don't understand why things work the way they do.

For example if you have a good eye, you'll note the amount of rocker on my design is on the slight side. This is because of the entry angle and a few other things. You'll also note that the bottom has an aft rake, meaning it's incidence angle is half way there for full plane mode. This boat hops up on plane with very little power, but this is also typical of flat bottom designs with the attributes this one has. My point is, the heavy duty version of this boat has a 1.5" all plywood bottom. This has a ride like walking down a city street compared to most flat bottom boats. Driving a good flat bottom is a world apart from a crappy one.

 

Its not an issue...in ideal conditions. But get a bit of side wind or tide when trying to retrieve, and all that boat still hanging out past the end of the trailer gets much harder to control. Plus pushing a 16ft boat around by yourself in the yard is a lot easier than wrestling a dual axle 22ft boat.
Towing is the easy part, it's the bit at either end that are the issue with larger boats.

Regards, Andrew.

 

What is the origin of the "Digger" name ? Is that what happens after you power her down the face of a wave ? Sorry PAR, only jesting. Honestly, kids and womenfolk demand and deserve more comfort than something like that can possibly offer. Unless the expectation level is pretty low, or Chesapeake Bay is a millpond.

 

What flat bottom boats have you spent time running Mr. Efficiency?

 

Would be over 30 years since I was in one. But they would have been displacement types. However, I have been in some very near-flat ply and aluminium planing punts and vee hulls that were hell on water in even a suggestion of a chop. Clearly, if you have any intentions of covering more than a mile or two across even mildly curly water, flat bottoms are very limiting. The ease of construction would appear to be the main plus, which has to be appealing to amateur builders, of course. They just aren't found in the product list of boat manufacturers in Australia, where even lake and dam fishos prefer some kind of modest vee bottom, with the squareish nose punt type popular.

 

I am not a fan of flat bottom boats but must admit that Paul's Digger is a nice looking one. To make a flat bottom boat ride reasonably easy in chop, the bow must be held down so that the chop does not slam into the mid bottom sections. In this way the sharp bow meets and splits the waves rather than hitting down on them.

A boat that is in the range specified and proven to run well in serious chop is B&B's Marissa. Its a bit more complex than Digger but the building process is well thought out and pre-cut kits are available. Marissa also won first place in last year's design challenge by Woodenboat Magazine. http://www.bandbyachtdesigns.com/ec018.htm

 

Thanks so much for you advice and suggestions. It seems as if I've inadvertently stumbled onto one of those issues in the V vs. Flat hull discussion which incites great passion- kind of like going on a hunting forum and asking 30-06 or .270. Watch the sparks fly. The tip about boat size is a good one. Nearly ten years in New York City makes it hard for me to think in terms other than most square footage for your dollar. Again, I appreciate the help. I've been learning a lot.

 

Always wanted to build a Renn Tolman skiff, then saw the PT Skiff .
If curious you can google the names

 

Typhoon,
Who said anything about boats hang'in out past the end of the trailer? One would obviously get, modify or build a trailer to fit the boat and I can't imagine a skiff heavy enough to require 2 axles. Even 25'.
Tom,
Marissa is a good looking boat but it was designed for efficiency. To optimize any one segment of design is to sacrifice to some degree other elements of the design. Marissa is a good skiff if one's first priority is efficiency but an all around boat one should look elsewhere.
Tom, PAR,
Another way to keep the forefoot on or close to the water is the "Flat Iron" skiff. John Gardner designed such a boat. Squareish stern with dory like lines this skiff has an absolutely flat bottom ...perfectly straight fore and aft. It has a stem much like PAR's Digger. The boat is said to handle well and didn't pound. I've never heard of a flat bottom boat that didn't pound but I do suspect the flat iron probably did ride fairly smooth. This one was 14'. But if a longer boat were built I suspect an abnormally smooth ride.

 

Easy,

I am very familiar with the design of Marissa and can say that it is DEFINITELY an all round boat. Efficiency was a goal but it is also designed to operate in some of the toughest waters around and does so in the sounds of coastal NC. From direct experience I can say that it would work well in any of the waters that the OP asked for. If it were intended only for optimum efficiency, it might well have a flat bottom but that very sharp bow makes easy work of chop and the low deadrise monohedron aft hull form offers low power requirements along with efficient use of fuel.