Stepped hull

I agree with Tunnels:

Unfortunatley this whole forum is going in that direction. Whenever one posts a serious technical question it often ends up in a pointless arm-chair pissing match or being hijacked by people talking crap - thinking this is some kind of a online social club they can log onto everyday to get some attention.

I propose the moderator of this site takes some action as he sees fit to restore a suitable communication ethic on this site.

 

<Posts not relating to stepped hulls or containing attacks against other members have been removed from the thread now.>

 

To step or not to step that the question ?? is it worth loosing sleep over ??

Ok so what is happening in the world of hull steps ? is that like the quick step ??
Do we need one each side or two or half a dozen ?? how big ? how small ? how wide ,how thick ? what shape ?? where is the best place?? do we need to bleed the air into it from outside or a hole in the keel through a suction pipe ?? ooops is that something else ! steps and hull bottom airation is this the fancy gold plated Key to gaining a couple of extra knots ?? then there some one stating bubbles in a great long paper that it actully cause extra drag against the hull bottom , ( not finished yet ) then we have smooth and shiny bottoms or should it be lightly sand papered and not shiney at all . the grade of the sand paper is even being researched as part of a 10 page report . why is it not just simple and use this and it give the best results , why all the mystery and the theatricals and bull dust . bolwing in the wind
Shape size and placement is pretty hit and miss , if anything changes with ballance then when you have people onboard they should have there weight recorded and have places to stand and dont move from there or you will up set the boat and it wont plane properly !! what a load of rubbish !!!.
Go back to the very begining !! what really are all these things trying to do ?? what are they there for ?? what is there job ?? come on tell use low landers ?? why all the pages and pages on nonsence and truck loads of meaning less calculations just to work out where to place a device on the hull bottom to lift the hull slightly above the waters surface to reduce skin friction between the water and the boat ,then not forgetting theres the angle its got to be set at as well !!you cant have it straight !! oh no !! if you get the angle wrong its never going to work oh no not never !!. More lots and lots of nonsence . oh almost for got the spray clinging to the bottom and side panels also slows you down .is it the weight of all those drops of water holding you back , or is it the air totally disturbing air flow and causing disturbance and turbulance and going round and round , oh my God where does i all end ?? what mindless silly thing can the think of next ??
I think i'll take up flying kites !! there just to many variables to get your head around .
Admit it people NO ONE really knows !! of that i am quite sure !its just 99% plus guess work !! and to really upset the bucket of pooh if you have a tunnel boat that is riding on a cushion air (surface effect ) under the hull and getting asissted lift from the air flow ,across ,around and over, the deck surface then non of this poppy cock this is of any use !!
ooops got side tracked and now dabbling into aerodynamics but i been told i dont understand anything about hydrodymnamics or areodynamics and its only experts that have years and years of training and can jump throught hoops holding a cup of tea and not spill a drop that are allowed to talk in low whispers about such matters !!! ssssh ,dont lell any one !!

Oh well the fish arent biting to well so time to pack up me things and get fish and chips for me dinner on the way home !! see ya !!

 

You attempts at design considerations and decisions, just prove how little you know about hydrodynamics Tunnels. You've repeatedly shown this on other threads. Study up and participate or skip the threads you can't effectively contribute in. Yes, much about design is based on personal experience, but since you have none, in regard to implemented design concepts and the evolution of these concepts (the very crux of yacht design BTW), then your continued utterance and insistence, that guess work and buckets of crap are precisely what you're bringing to the discussion here.

This is precisely the type of blanket statement, that proves how truly out of touch you are in design matters. Do you honestly think R&D in 7 and 8 figure allotments are just folly, in the current and most recent markets? I can't possably understand your confusion on this, with the huge advent of change seen in stepped hull forms (and other types) in the last couple of decades. Up date your Powerboat Magazine subscription or something, as you're not even remotely close to reality. Because those half a century old ones you're falling back on need to get tossed out.

Does it seem like black magic? Well of course it does, partly because you can't see the subtleties of the changes, let alone understand the underlying concepts. Again, do you honestly expect an NA or designer, to reach in his bag of black magic tricks, in the area of step size, shape and placement and offer a dissertation for you? I just designed a high speed 30' powerboat that stopped it's competition. So, now I'm to reveal it's secrets? Are you kidding . . . Frankly any serious student of design, designer or NA can take one walk around this particular boat and know instantly what I've done to make it fast, though you'd probably just call it another bucket of crap.

Maybe a simple analogy will help. Can you accurately describe why one basketball coach, seems to always have a good team, even when plaqued with injuries and other unforeseen issues? No you can't, no more than describing the subtleties of the design elements you can't grasp. You might point to several attributes of their coaching style, but you could find these things, in many other coaches too. Some things aren't intrinsically tangible, without considerable and quite in depth knowledge, of the various subjects involved. I have no doubt you have considerable building expertise. You've proven this repeatedly, but your absolute disdain for the principles, you refuse to acknowledge, let alone understand and repeated badgering about inept designers and their lack of any innovation or understanding, is just outrageously incorrect.

 

Steps ?? i know nothing !!

Steps in reality are not worth the trouble and effort for such small gain its almost like putting racing stripes on you car they look fast even when its parked
Steps are much the same !! For a long time i followed race boats all round the country and took hundreds of picture i checked angles and thicknesses and sizes and there placements you name it , then they disapeared from the race curcits for a while ,boats went just as fast and performance and speeds never altered then they started to reappear same thing no change!!.
Was much later i worked in a company and we made race boats so again i got involved with making hulls that had steps ! aaah but this time i saw first hand and understood a little more . we used multi steps 3 one behind the other then when they where in place the tricks began to emerge just small but things that were changed from the original drawings , just looking you could not see any differance but lay a straight edge over the points and there it was . Also the shape of the aft edge of each step there were suttle things barely visable and unless you knew where and what to look for you would never see them . when the boat went into the water and a week of set up to get the feel and fine tune everything my wish came true !
i was able to get one trip out, i was taken for a ride at over 130 mph and saw first hand how everything worked and the effects and how the 2 person crew worked together to change and make the hull change attaude from nose down to tail down and then to simply ride on just the after end of the hull where the steps were . The drive exsplained when we got back that the steps made the back end of the boat slippery !! but as a speed add on hardly noticeable
Have you ever played with rocker in the bottom of a boat ??
do you understand what rocker can do even in the ordinary every day power boat ?.
can you combine rocker and one or two steps ?? :?:
what sort of effect could you exspect by doing this ?
now this is just 45 t0 50 mph stuff !!
faster to 65 mph is exciting
Where is the best place for the low point of rocker to be placed ?? you can shift rocker ?? what ?? why and what effect can it have ?? Good or bad??
what kind of boats thrive on hook built into the bottom and how big can it be ?? should it be confined to the very back of a hull and if so why ??

Remember i know nothing !! im just a dumb hands on boat builder !

 

Show us some pictures of what you talking about !! im all for a good old picture show and tell . How about it then ?? or even a snippet off your plans
So we can all oooh and aaaah and see what your on about !! hows about it folks ?? I promiss i wont bring me bucket with me, promiss !!

 

Guys calm

 

http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/004533.html
You must read the last part on this page then read the rest !!

Talking about the bubble thing look at this !!http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110297069

Cant sleep !!!

 

picture are worth a thousand words !!
So tell me how many pictures have you seen posted from all of the learned naval architects that stoke the corridors on this whole forum ! unless im looking in the wrong place i have never seen one . :?: graphs and computer read outs excluded they are meaningless and most look better if they're upside down any way !!!

 

Dont know anything about Steps , but I was just over at the shipyard to , err, emm, " borrow " a jackstand and noticed that this week its step city down there.

Snapped a few photos for readers who dont know what all the fuss is about

 

Yes thats what we need more of !! now people that are interested in this subject can see what its on about . if you there again a front on and a rear veiw pictures are what needed as well . i mention about rocker its part of the multi step thing , in one of the posts i found last night there is drawings that if you just look wont see but if you blow up the picture and hold a ruler on the screen you will pict up the high points of each step . its the little details that in reality are the most important .
http://www.navaldesign.co.za/articles/Stepped Hulls- Feb07.pdf
read and then look closely at the drawing s

 

I'm sure those bumps, angles, vents, sweeps and hollows in and along the plane surfaces where just guesses Tunnels.

 

They may be 80% guess work but people here are able to see whats there . with guidance and information from people such as yourself fill us in on the theory and whats wrong and how it could be better. !!
i agree theres lots addons and bits here and there and hard to tell what is the reasoning behind all the differant panels on differant levels.

If it takes stiring the pot with a big stick and treading on a few toes to get you guys to open up then thats what i will keep doing !!

 

Well, taking that “lead” as such. You are left with only 2 options.

1) Said person, who you claim “know such stuff” but are keeping it to themselves
Or
2) There are those who are openly sharing this “stuff” and have posted it.

Since your constant protestations and venting hot air, would suggest that if #2 has occurred, it has gone right over your head and you are simply unaware. Yet when told, you blow more hot air and take over the thread in a pugnacious manner because there is not an answer that is to your liking. So what?

Or

If everyone fell into #1, again, so what? It is no different to Samsung or Apple, or NASA or many others, keeping and protecting their intellectual property to the benefit of themselves and not others. They wont tell you…Boo Hoo..so what? Grow up!

Which ever is the case, you are never satisfied, never. You hijack threads with your rants because you either do not understand, because it is way beyond your capacity to understand, or the answer does not sit well with you. Again, so what, who cares? That is your problem and no one else’s, yet you consistently and persistently take over threads in a belligerent manner and insist on answers biased only for your own personal edification and stuff everyone else. This is not TUNNEL’s webs forum, it is BoatDesign.net’s forum! It is for everyone, not just you. Which either you respect, or or you don't!

If you are consistently unhappy, as you clearly demonstrate, with all the replies you get, start your own website, and do and say as you please without others bothering you with “stuff” you think is rubbish or irrelevant. And stir your own pot with your own big stick.

 

I was wondering how long it would be !! i am not going to read this cause it just the same old same old