Pirate Mercs

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by dskira

No you mistaken...bla bla... "pop" cool! ... If you don't, you have a problem....more bla bla... delusional....bla bla.... your head....bla bla...my name..... coward bla bla.
Cheers
Daniel

Daniel, you clearly don't like this discussion so why bother yourself and others?
Please stay sottovento on this one, you have valuable contributions to make elsewhere. Take advantage of your strong points not the other one.
Please dont answer with descriptions of what other people said or done. It starts sounding like kindergarden, and you must have posted a lot of good post to have the points you have.
Please

Marc

[Marco1]

Originally Posted by mark775

Richard, we are on the same page.
Boston, be careful. Parts for those MANS (MTUs?) are going to be exorbitant. I'm not saying it can't be done but be careful.
An aside; Bos, I wouldn't know what to expect from putting gas in a diesel other than the engine would stop running and there would be less lubrication to the injection pump. I wouldn't think it would harm...What did the pro say?

Gas in diesel? depends on how much. If it is up to 30%, add 2 stroke oil 25:1 proportion to the amount of gas and forget about it.
If is is more, I would try to drain at least half and refill with diesel and then add oil. Messy job unless you have plenty drums and a good pump and room to move.
Who says the engines need new rings?
About the idea of 200L drums as additional fuel, for a boat that is going to be shot at? I don't like the idea. In fact I was going to suggest some type of plate between the hull and the tanks to armor them a bit. Drums filled with fuel in such vessel is asking for trouble not to mention illegal unless carried on deck and that is an even worst idea.

[Marco1]

http://www.piracysuppression.com/armedescorts.html
Above is a link to a company that provides naval escort.

Below, you can join them and train with them, an easy way to learn and then split on your own I think. There are harder ways to learn than from those who are already doing it and willing to pay for you to learn.
http://www.piracysuppression.com/pos...available.html

[Marco1]

THis is almost 5 years old

WORLD: Private Armed Escorts in High Demand on Sea

Asian governments struggling to contain the piracy menace on the region’s waters are using a controversial and lucrative private industry of armed escort boats providing security for commercial vessels.

by Karl Malakunas, AFP
May 11th, 2005

While Asian governments struggle to contain the piracy menace on the region’s waters, a controversial and lucrative industry is emerging centred on armed escort boats providing security for commercial vessels.

With former elite military soldiers on board and warnings they are prepared to engage in armed conflict, the groups have sparked a fierce debate over whether they are inflaming maritime tensions and if their actions are legal.

The International Maritime Organisation, the Federation of Asean Shipowners’ Association and a senior Malaysian security official have all expressed reservations about the security boats in recent weeks.

But with companies paying sometimes more than 100,000 US dollars for an armed escort mission, there is undoubtedly demand for extra security from merchant vessels concerned about their vulnerability to pirate attacks.
The narrow 960-kilometre-long Malacca Strait, bordered by Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, is one of the world’s busiest shipping lanes and a particularly strong magnet for pirate attacks.

The Malacca Strait is used by about 50,000 ships a year carrying a third of world trade and half its oil supplies, and the attacks have led to concerns the waterway and adjoining Singapore Strait are also vulnerable to terrorists. Industry sources said there were as many as seven armed escort groups already based in Singapore or in the process of setting up operations in the city-state, with most of them arriving over the past year.

One of the highest profile and apparently most successful groups is Background Asia Risk Solutions (BARS), which describes itself on its website as “the leading provider of armed escorts in South East Asia for maritime assets”.

“Our teams are manned by experienced former military and police tactical personnel,” the website says.

BARS managing director Alex Duperouzel said his organisation was conducting two to three escort missions throughout Asia each month, with it unusual for each operation to cost less than 50,000 dollars.

Most of these missions are for ships involved in the oil and gas sector, Duperouzel said.

Another organisation that has been operating from Singapore is Malacca Straits Maritime Security, a subsidiary of Glenn Defense Marine, which has been offering escorts featuring armed former British military Gurkha soldiers. A burst of publicity in the Singapore press recently about the armed escorts led to a strong reaction from Malaysia’s internal security director, Othman Talib, who reportedly said any such vessel would be detained if found in Malaysian waters.

“They have no power in this country and it is a violation of our territorial sovereignty,” the Bernama news agency quoted Othman as saying late last month.

The issue of sovereignty in regards to the Malacca Strait has been extremely sensitive for Malaysia and Indonesia, with the two nations consistently rejecting any offers of foreign help in policing the waterway.

Glenn Defense Marine’s head of operations for maritime security, Stephen Weatherford, said that, following Othman’s comments, Malacca Straits Maritime Security had suspended its escort operations while clarifying their legal status with all relevant regional authorities.

“We are not out to cause any issues with any government,” Weatherford said, adding he was “hopeful” the company’s escort services would soon be back in operation. BARS has insisted throughout the controversy sparked by Othman’s comments that its operations comply with all laws, and Duperouzel said the firm’s missions were continuing through Malaysian waters and elsewhere.

“We sought clarification and our activities continue in an appropriate fashion,” Duperouzel said.

Singapore police spokesman Victor Keong also confirmed that various armed escort services had been registered and licensed in the city-state
“We do not allow unlicensed private armed guards to operate in Singapore,” Keong said in an e-mail. Aside from the legal issue, critics argue that armed escorts risk inflaming a pirate incident, and could lead to disastrous consequences in the event of a shoot-out between the attackers and security personnel.

“What if they are escorting a big oil or chemical tanker? God knows what could happen,” the Federation of Asean Shipowners’ Association’s secretary general, Daniel Tan, said.

The International Maritime Organisation, the United Nation’s maritime regulatory body, also opposes any arming of ships to counter piracy.
“The carrying and use of firearms for personal protection or protection of a ship is strongly discouraged,” said an IMO circular e-mailed to AFP from the organisation’s London media office in response to queries on the issue.

“Carriage of arms on board ships may encourage attackers to carry firearms thereby escalating an already dangerous situation, and any firearms on board may themselves become an attractive target for an attacker.”
Duperouzel rejected the criticism, saying crews had every right to protect themselves from pirates.

“With respect to the IMO, they are not out on the water, they are not faced with an AK-47 from very close range,” he said.

“The criminals who perpetrate these acts have no respect for the IMO and in order to protect the lives of personnel at the end of that barrel, it’s important to take firm steps to prevent loss of life.”

Glenn Defense Marine’s Weatherford also insisted his company’s armed vessels were a legitimate tool for vulnerable ships to protect themselves.
“We are no different to an armed security service protecting a building on land in any country,” Weatherford said.

And despite the concerns surrounding the vessels, the IMO, BARS and Glenn Defense Marine all report that there have not yet been any armed conflicts between the patrol vessels and pirates.

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=12241

I like the "Quick Response Escort Vessel in Asia"

But where are the chicken coops?

[Marco1]

Yes that one looks like crap, you would think is loaded with illegal immigrants wanting to land at Chrismas Island.

What do you think about their choice of boat? Is it really that bad as Richard says? I like the norvegian missile boat better but that must cost a mint to operate.
I think they could get a professional to build extra tankage in that coastal patrol boat no problem.
otherwise if opertaion cost are too high, the only clear choice is a smaller boat. 100' will always cost more than 60'

I love those Norwegian ones you posted. Expensive to operate, yes, but fuel will be part of the bill. Tankage, I think, is the bigger concern (And startup costs).

[Marco1]

http://commercial.apolloduck.com/fea...html?id=101763
How about this one. 2x 12v71 detroit. Nowthere is a cheap engine. Not sure what speed nor tankage

[Marco1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-8NHfAYEK8

Here is another Norvegian but this has jets. They sure know how to build a boat.

http://commercial.apolloduck.com/fea...html?id=103048

[dskira]

Originally Posted by dskira

WHO, WHO,
I think this thread is going a little to far off the "boat Design" intended.
I do not want to hear about armement, guns, amunitions, weapon and other mercenary things.
Please keep you war question, even if its chassing pirate, to other forum, who will be delighted to tell you what boat is the best to kill each other
THIS IS WRONG, and I realy not happy about it.
Groundpowder please ask legitimate questions about your boat.
What you do with, keep it for yourself.
Boston, could you not answer the phone anymore? Thanks
Cheers
Daniel

This is the initial post I posted here.
Could somebody tell me what was wrong with it?
Do you see something so offensive I deserved the fury of everybody.
Is that a forum or just I have to follow the trend like a sheep.
I think I had a good point. But it escaladed negatively because of some members didn't like it. Sorry.
Marco1 I apreciate your advise, thank you.
I will take it in consideration.
Cheers
Daniel

[ancient kayaker]

A few hundred years ago merchantmen routinely were armed and often travelled in convoy for mutual support; East Indiamen in particular were prepared to fight off pirates and privateers and tried to look like Royal Navy vessels.

An occasional dodge used by heavily-armed privateers of the period hired to accompany convoys through "national waters" in order to evade national laws was to carry a small cargo, there being no law limiting the amount paid for such a service by a boat that just happens to be armed to the teeth.

Not so sure about modern laws of course; are there laws that limit one's ability to self-defend?

Sheesh, Mark, watch the language. Me, levelheaded? I will never live this down!

Originally Posted by Marco1

What do you think about their choice of boat? Is it really that bad as Richard says? I like the norvegian missile boat better but that must cost a mint to operate.
I think they could get a professional to build extra tankage in that coastal patrol boat no problem.

I did not say that boat is bad!!! The opposite........

It is just a bad choice.
You can NOT build in sufficient tankage. You can NOT make it a seagoing vessel. You can NOT easily overhaul the engines to deliver a 24/7 service without paying for a pair of new ones.

Nobody buys a Porsche when transporting fridges is the task.
Horses for races..........
This one is a dead horse, at least for such a enterprise.

There are many other vessels on the market which would fit better.
A 60´boat btw. is nothing but a bad joke for such application. 110´ and upwards is the range to look for.

Can you imagine what it would mean to follow a container vessel at 24 knots in a 3 meter sea? 60ft yes?

And can you imagine what it means to cover a area of about 800 by 350 nautical miles (800nm is Salalah to Djibouti), with a range of 250, like the toys you posted?

Terry:

Not so sure about modern laws of course; are there laws that limit one's ability to self-defend?

unfortunately yes. Not so much in exterritorial waters, but we all have to come back to port once.

Regards
Richard

This is what they would need to do a proper business and survive the first trip.

http://commercial.apolloduck.com/dis...tml?aid=120710

[Boston]

Depends on a how hot the engine was when you ran it and how fast you ran it
If you had been on the highway, stopped, filled with petrol and then immediately went back out on the highway, your likely to burn off the pistons before the engine dies. If the engine was not up to operating temp yet and you were just driving in town probably nothing would be all that screwed up other than you might loose the fuel pump. I got lucky and only needed to flush the system and replace all the filters, but it was still a whopping pain in the ass.

Originally Posted by mark775

Richard, we are on the same page.
Boston, be careful. Parts for those MANS (MTUs?) are going to be exorbitant. I'm not saying it can't be done but be careful.
An aside; Bos, I wouldn't know what to expect from putting gas in a diesel other than the engine would stop running and there would be less lubrication to the injection pump. I wouldn't think it would harm...What did the pro say?

c

Ild love to see these guys make this thing work for them
its a viable need and they have the experience
what they are looking for is just the right boat

B

[Groundpounder]

I have considered applying for a security position on one of the other company boats, or even better, a logistical position with their company. But the idea is to go to sea with friends I already know, trust, and have served with. As this project progresses one of us may very well sign on for 2 or 3 months. So as things stand we need a boat with a range of 1500 to 2000 miles at a cruising speed of 27 knots. Our objective is to find the most inexpensive solution to the problem of piracy out of Somalia. Here is a link to the McArthur, Blackwater's new 183ft boat. http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ph...mac500x312.jpg This is what unlimited resources after receiving fat cat defense contracts will get you. We do not have their resources. None of us are rich men. So what kind of boat can accomplish the mission? I am trying to write a business proposal so I can shop for a loan. I will not have millions but I should be able to borrow a million or at least half of one. I liked those Norwegian boats but there is no way those things could have the range needed not to mention the video had them operating in smooth water. I would think that things would be different in rough watter so something in that class wouldn't work. Also, we would probably get arrested trying to take that into most ports, and we would not be able to get more shells for the big guns or rockets. The question keeps coming up of how we plan to get automatic weapons into various ports. I know that escorting companies are carrying automatic weapons; figuring how to do it is a job for lawyers. I also know the country of Djibouti is renting automatic weapons to security companies for use against pirates. Once I get the logistics figured out and I am sure this idea is practical, I am going to spend a lot of money on hiring an international maritime lawyer to work out the details. My thought was to procure the parts needed to make our belt fed weapons semi-automatic and converting them before crossing into territorial waters. After crossing back into international waters we could change over to fully automatic. I don't care if the guns jam after every shot in semi-automatic mode as long as they are legal. Any thoughts on this idea? I haven't had a chance to talk to an armorer or a gun smith about it yet.