Pirate Mercs

Our intention is not to kill pirates, but to protect the ships traveling through a vary dangerous part of the world. Please keep in mind that these criminals have promised to kill American prisoners after the SEALs killed three pirates who were holding an American captain hostage. We are not mercenaries, for mercenaries are men who fight for a foreign power against another foreign power. We are armed security guards. From an ethical viewpoint I see myself on the same level as a brinks security guard or a guy riding shotgun on an old western stage coach. I brought up the question of armament because so many others had posted questions on the subject and as I would like my questions answered about boats, it is only fair to answer others questions about guns. By the way, there were several pages of posts about guns and nobody complained until now.
So how does one keep pirates away from a large vessel with out killing them? Now this is a question I can't answer with out going into detail about armament. The pirates most destructive weapon is the RPG-7 which self detonates at 920 meters. RPG's are not cheap and I wouldn't expect the pirates to have a lot of experience firing the thing; they mostly use them to intimidate shipping captains into stopping their ship. It is very difficult to hit a tank at more then 300 meters on land and that is pushing it. Also it is a one shot weapon. The M2 machine guns that I will use have an effective range of 1800 meters and can fire tracer rounds which is an important part of this scenario. 50 cal tracer rounds are very visible to the naked eye and at night it is like laser fire. Our principal advantage is to detect them before they get close. One important question is how far out could you see a skiff coming at you on open water? I would expect that firing several bursts across their path at extremely long range would convince them to go elsewhere. I know some of you find the discussion distasteful and I understand your disdain. I will try to keep the rest of my writings to a nautical nature. If you want to discuss the nautical parts of this post I would find that helpful.
Assuming Boston and Marco1 are correct at half speed I should expect about 41.5 hours of power from the engine. How much range would that give us? I have emailed the sellers to get the exact engine specifications although I haven't received an answer at this time. The question is how fast do the ships go through this area, and how far are we going to be able to keep up with them for? What kind of weather should we be prepared for in this part of the world and will a ship of this class handle it? How many people are needed to crew a boat of this size? In an engagement every person on board would be on a gun with the exception of the one behind the tiller. When not engaged I figured we would need a mechanic and a cook. The rest of the crew would be watching the horizon in shifts. Night vision goggles would be used at night. I figured eight people aboard would be about right. Soldiers are used to uncomfortable living conditions for extended periods of time and this boat is cake compared with some things I have had to deal with. I noticed the boat I posted on has 16 bunks; could we put bigger fuel tanks on board and how would that effect the ship? In my link a diagram of the boat was posted; where would you guys put the tanks? How difficult are they to install. I can MIG, TIG , Oxy-acetylene and GMAW wield any kind of steel or aluminum in question; will I be able to install the tanks myself? Will the larger ships we are escorting be able to refuel us? Can our diesels use their fuel? Does anyone have an idea what is costs to maintain a boat of this class per day of use? How far away could you see a small boat coming at you? Thank you for the help on this matter.

 

If that's the case they may burn 100 litres an hour, sounds better already. I hope it is propped correctly... I would hate to pay for a new prop that size x 2!

As for refuelling, I wonder if the MTU 12V will burn the bunker stuff the container ship burns. Probably not and they either need to buy a centrifuge to clean the bunker fuel or load diesel fuel in the tanker. May be the tanker has a good storage of diesel for their gensets?
How do you refuel at sea is another question. I am sure the navy does it, but if a bulk carrier can do?

I noticed your friend did not mention to take with them a fast smaller boat to deploy in case it's needed.

 

The new dutch patrol ships aren't designed to go fast, more as a mothership for the helicopter and fast rhibs. This is cheaper and more effective for counterdrugs ops, and SAR.
you could buy an old fisheryvessel and do the same, use it as a mothership, and use smaller cheaper fast boats to move around. Fisheryvessels are very cheap here at this moment. The on on the link is located in holland also btw

 

Groundpowder, installing extra fuel tanks is always possible, the cost of the tanks and installation is another matter. Of course you could do it if you had a crane to get the tank in the ship and good advise as where to place it. You are talking to add 4-5 tonn container anchored securely so that it does not come loose in hig sea. It must be done properly.
If it was me, I would first try to get a few quotes from the shipyard in the netherlands. They are bound to be expensive, but worth the try since they are right there.
Second port of call is this guy Kaya Cakar, owner of Asboat Yacht Building, in Izmir Turkey. They are very accomodating know a lot about steel building and could do the job blindfolded.
I don't know about costs for this type of ship, may be some of the otehrs can give you an idea, if not ask the same question in the trawler forum, http://www.trawlerforum.com those are guys that had 40 50 foot trawlers for decades and can give you practical advise and do not kringe at the metion of a sling shot.
As for how far can you see an inflatable coming at you, that is a military question. In daylight and good binoculars, I would guess 2000 meters is not impossible, at night time 10 meters if you are lucky and it is very dark. I would expect those thing to show up on a radar and radars are cheap this days.

Just an idea taken from those idiots chasing the Japanese in the Antartic, you could carry steel cable on floaters to trow at the boats and foul their props.

 

Tankers aren't as fast, but containerships haul. You need to keep up with them. 27 kts. They will not want to stop to fuel you - time is money. You are going to have to get it from small trampers or in port or, with a good enough relationship, a navy.
Add the observer's altitude to the altitude of the attacker, say, a total of 15 ft. Geometry allows you to see him almost five miles - after that, he's over the horizon. With choppy water or poor light, less, but choppy water in certain light, more, because of the spray he throws. As long as he gets the message before 400 meters, I would think. You don't need steel cable, Marco. Black poly (it floats) is killer and you can't see it well. Scraps of black net will take a long time to cut out. If it is Spectra netting, they will need serrated knives and more time. On second thot, some fine wire in there would shut them down completely!
"Just an idea taken from those idiots chasing the Japanese in the Antartic" - That's my favorite show!
G'night

 

you cant put plastic in the water..
thats illegal!
unless you want to go and get it back??

 

This is a saine thought, a human thought. Not a gun crazy going on pirate rampage extermination.
If you want that go to an other forum please. This is not the place.
Cheers
Daniel

 

I think he said he was starting a naval escort business, where did you read "pirate rampage extermination".

I know its difficult when you get exited but try to keep the facts right.

Since when where you an administrator and could instruct people to leave the forum. You have only been here 8 months yourself.

If you don't like it -you have the right to not read it.

I have deducted points from you DS I have told you why.

 

Frosty you don't get it. I was kidding when i gave you good point and said I have to kiss your ***. Poor moroon the truth is: I don't get a fly **** about your stupid point.
You are so poorly wired you didn't get the funny part.
If you there with point go back to elementary school, but never ever told me a crap like that.
This is a forum moroon. Get it?
Do not threaten me again ever.
You power is NOTHING, zip, non.
As for the Lanolin, put it in your arse, its good for your emoroid and your points.
People who gave me lesson piss me off, mostly being a computer on a forum.
I tryed to warn you. You don't get it, to bad.
By the way, I wrote to Jeff about the thread as I told earlier. Happy now?
I presente you my behind and kiss it.

 

You right Frosty, I get exited when people lecture me, patronize me, show a power they don't have, and use the oldest wickest and last aminition: the SPELLING.
They love that. When they have nothing more to say the attack the SPELLING.
You don't exite me. Your attitude make me sad. You have to rely on the time you spend on the forum to show your strength. You must be stress.
As for the Firefox, it can join the Lanolin up yours.
As for your dear SPELLING it can join the crowd.
The beauty is: everytime you will use Lanolin you will have to think about me, and if you don't use it you will be the king of the suckers, paying all outdoors for product which don't work. Is that nice or what
Could you give me an other of your bad point, you seams to love it so much.
And be carefull perhaps the tooth ferry will come to haunt you
As always you welcome to kiss my behind

 

Killing people is an argument for nothing.
Good for you Frosty, you have a great sense of humanity.
You are a poor jerk to think like that.

 

Some of the questions have been addressed, there seem to be outstanding. Cumon guys stop shooting at each other and tell him what he needs to know!

weather
ability of vessel to handle it
crew size
watch organization
maintainance costs

I have no related experience to draw in so no useful advice to offer in the nautical area, but lots of life experience. You are all ground soldiers by the sound of it with no marine experience to speak of. You may not survive long without at least 2 crew members with that experience and training for the rest. Courage, team spirit and determination are always good to have but not enough on the high seas, even when nobody is shooting at you.

 

I think, someone was threatening Frosty while telling him not to threaten...

"Absolutley better. I don't know why they don't take a few 20mm guns with explosive heads" - Yes, the 20 ought to really make their heads "pop"...
COOL!

If there is an individual with a problem with this thread, be advised, keep up your browbeating, heavy-handed techniques and I will start posting long-range sniper shots through a spotting scope. Your aggressive, warlike techniques are not appreciated here... there are gentlemen trying to accomplish a task.

Can we get back to the boat, please?

 

Although the boat is a proper built, and Burmester was one of the best for this sort of vessel, this is´nt what one would need for this task.

It is a coastal patrol boat with very limited range. You would need at least 1000nm range at cruising speed. Cruising speed MUST be above 24 kn to hold the pace of a average Container vessel or fast (handysize) Bulker / gen. Cargo.

You cannot!!!......
....use BunkerC in such engines, you need at least MDO / MDF, better plain Diesel fuel.
No commercial vessel can rebunker you!
Even if they have the appropriate fuel (most have MDO / MDF because BunkerC is prohibited in many ports), they do´nt have the equipment to pump you up.

Tankers fear nearly nothing more, than electrical contact with another vessel, while at sea. For good reasons. (and they do´nt transport processed products in general)

Crew size for a 30 meter patrol boat is around 12 and up! That makes for three on watch, rest off. One cannot assume to operate such boat with less, when there is a mission on top of plain moving the vessel through the water.

Maintenance and running cost naturally vary widely, but you should reckon at least 5% of the newbuilt cost of such vessel p.a. as a baseline. Fuel on top of that, crewing additional. There you are in a 1mio$ ballpark for the standing operating cost already.

Weather should´nt be a problem in that region, it is mostly calm to moderate. When it gets nasty there it gets really nasty though. (due to the high energy content in the system)
In nasty weather Pirates are the last of your concerns, I guess.

The Navy boats someone posted here, seem to be a rather good solution. (or something similar)
A mothership and RIB´s are´nt what you need. Too slow the launch time for a sudden response.

Another, yet not mentioned, issue will be your homeport! You cannot choose as you like. You need the permission of the authorities to enter their territory with a heavily armed boat!
There you are in international diplomacy and politics issues. One of the worst minefields to navigate, you know?

Although the idea of a private "support" team for the commercial shipping fleet sounds nice, bringing it into real life means time, money, sweat and tears, be sure.

In the Malakka straits btw. are some similar enterprises at work.

OK Terry?

Regards
Richard

 

How can they solve the fuel issue, Richard?