Pirate Mercs

[mark775]

There are other teams trying to do the same thing. The shippers don't seem to want any part of guns on their boats...

[TeddyDiver]

What haven't been discussed is the range/cruising speed demand of the task. In addition to the top speed to overrun the pirates, there's a must to maintain cruising speed of a modern freighter/tanker and to cover a notable range. In the target area there aren't too many places for refueling and reckon they got to cover some 2000Nm Don't know too many boats/ships capable to this and none of them being cheap..

[Boston]

its actually been discussed off line
the simple reality is although it would be effective to go after the pirates in a more aggressive manor its no likely to be happening anytime soon

they threw the idea past me and I just thought Id check out there boat options

Im coming to the conclusion that the plan wont work

[mark775]

I'm gettin' pissed, now! I want these guys to do it!
I hate the idea of people taking others' stuff.

[TeddyDiver]

Just a though that the same stategy pirates are using, a mothership with fast powerboats to make hit&runs, would be the the most "cost effective". Old whaler, some surveillance stuff, a couple of rib's and some firepower..

[Guest20100203]

The current environment will only permit on board security teams on commercial vessels.

Since the commercial interests are on the hook for costs and liability, a Shepparding, privately funded warship is out of the question, not to mention coordination with the allied navies in the area presently.

Lets take a simple plan, where a pirate mother ship has launched 6 small attack craft. The radar picks up the pirate mother ship and vectors over to cut off any attempts for them to intercede. Standard stuff right? Nope, the 6 attack craft split into two groups of three, one attacks the shepparding warship, the other the freighter it was protecting. The resulting skirmish results in the lose of two attack craft, a damaged RIB aboard the shepparding warship, from a few lucky RPG's, some dead pirates, some wounded ex-jarheads on the shepparding warship and the ass kicker, the freighter is taken anyway, by the other three attack craft. People have died, material and equipment is lost, the shipper is on the hook for all of it, including the law suit from a Somali mother who's son died in the battle, because international law was broken, the boat is held, delivery schedule shot to hell, etc., etc., etc.

No shipper in the world will agree to the potential "issues" that could result, from roaming bands of privately funded warships plying the waters off the horn. And this is the real issue, who is responsible and who will be held liable if the crap hits the fan, which it will if you let wandering groups of mercenaries, scoot around in well armed boats.

[powerabout]

You forgot about the dodgy maritime nations placing Navy status on their own vessels so they can legitmately carry guns.
There are quiet a few middle Eastern Megayachts where this is done.

All the insurance companies say no to on board weapons BUT ( as we do) plenty of times you carry armed people from port to port or offshore installation if the charterer/government says 'take these poeple form a to b'.
usually when we have explosives or something like that or something we are not allowed to know about but are told is valuable??
These items may or may not be on the manifest ( the one we see anyway)

[Dave Gudeman]

There are lots of problem with your scenario, Par. First of all, why would the escort leave the ship it is escorting to engage a ship that is not a direct threat to the ship it is escorting? Their obvious strategy is to stay put and kill the small boats.

Second, one of the premises is that the escort vessel has much longer-range weapons and much better-trained crew, which makes even a three-on-one scenario a quick kill for the the escort vessel.

Third, what makes you think the mother ship is going to have six boats? One or two seems a lot more likely for a pirate operation. As soon as they hit a ship, they have to get all boats on board and scoot.

Forth, these are pirates out to make an easy buck, not navy ships out to destroy enemy shipping. When they see that the target ship has an escort, they will pick another target.

Fifth, if by some bizarre set of circumstances, things ever did come out according to your scenario, which ones of those six boats do you think is going to volunteer to take on the armed escort? Remember, these are pirates not naval forces.

Sixth, these are security forces, not mercenaries. The difference is that they are enforcing laws against lawbreakers, not engaging in war against an equally-legitimate enemy force. I'm not a lawyer, but I very much doubt that your evaluation of the legal situation has any bearing in reality. Has international law really deteriorated to the point where it is legally problematic for a ship to defend itself against pirates?

[Boston]

Kill ratio in Somalia was something like 200 to 1
kill ratio in Afghanistan is something like 400 to 1
kill ratio in Iraq is something like 600 to 1
and thats with observing some pretty restrictive rules of engagement
I dont doubt these guys heart
its just after thinking it through they are not going to be able to hire out there own private navy and be able to make it work

there is a tenant in the military that will get you a discharge as fast as any other

failure to adapt to military life
in this case
its failure to adapt to civilian life
most of these guys are friends of mine Ive known for a long time
there basically as straight up a bunch of guys as you would ever want
but after ten or so years in combat each they are not really adapting to civilian life very well
I was hoping I would be able to support them in there venture
but I cant honestly tell em I think this is going to work

kinda a sad world when we create a solder class and then leave them out in the cold once they are passed there useful term of service

B

[susho]

I like the idea.
Just paint somalia on the transom, it seems you could do anything in that country
At first you would just scare them away, but beware, these pirates have money, and some of them are smart enough to evolve, so it could be a potential arms race.
I actually like a design of member alik,

With some mods it would be the perfect boat

[Kay9]

Boston:
Ive been thinking about this from the perspective of a professional mariner and a amature historian.

I have an idea that might work for your friends.

There are a lot of older frieghters and tankers around that are in the $200,000 to $1.2 Mil US Dollar range.

I think,(mind you I dont know for certain) That your friends could buy one of these vessels, charter a cargo and then cruise close to shore in an attempt to be pirated. At that point the actions of the "crew" of this vessel would be less likely to be a problem.
The vessel could be renamed and repainted every so often. This would be very much like a female cop pretending to be a whore to catch a john.

If this scenario is of intrest I would be happy to help them out. I have an Admirality lawyer on staff that has some insite to this also.

PM Me if intrested.

K9

[mark775]

Par, where did that word, "shepparding" come from (beyond etymologically, a "shepherd")? Exactly, dave. Susho, cool boat, indeed but the thing has to be able to keep up with a freighter in rough water, too and people will have to spend months on it. I really don't see how this is any different than blackwater, for example, providing security in Iraq. I don't know of an insurance underwriter rule stating "no guns". I'd get a different underwriter.
Yes, terrorists, insurgents, and probably soon, pirates have handbooks that teach "claim mistreatment or torture upon capture" and such stuff but who can argue wrongdoing if the whole thing, including AKs and RPGs is caught on tape? Only in the present political environment in the US, for example, are terrorists/pirates accorded rights and the citizenry is very squeamish about it. Boston, your guys don't have a backer? Sorry.

[Boston]

They are working on backing. Matter of fact they are working on backing as hard as they can. They pooled there money and have enough to get themselves and some equipment on site but I dont think they have near enough for a boat or a mission with out a sponsor.

To bad to cause these guys are about the most capable bunch you would never want to run into.
They have been good friends all and I wish them the best
was hoping I could come back at them with some better news but I gotta give em the straight story regardless
they are way short and they desperately need a paying customer

B

[hoytedow]

Originally Posted by Kay9

Boston:
Ive been thinking about this from the perspective of a professional mariner and a amature historian.

I have an idea that might work for your friends.

There are a lot of older frieghters and tankers around that are in the $200,000 to $1.2 Mil US Dollar range.

I think,(mind you I dont know for certain) That your friends could buy one of these vessels, charter a cargo and then cruise close to shore in an attempt to be pirated. At that point the actions of the "crew" of this vessel would be less likely to be a problem.
The vessel could be renamed and repainted every so often. This would be very much like a female cop pretending to be a whore to catch a john.

If this scenario is of intrest I would be happy to help them out. I have an Admirality lawyer on staff that has some insite to this also.

PM Me if intrested.

K9

I like this idea. It would not be the first ship to travel under false pretenses in order to lure unwary attackers.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...BE668383609EDE
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...679C946896D6CF
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/south...worldwar.shtml

[Typhoon]

If these guys are in 20ft boats, adverse enough weather to shut down a helo is going to shut them down too, no doubt about it.
Even if they DID have the balls to operate in such conditions, boarding would be impossible.
Helo has the advantage of long stand off range to the ship and the 20mm has the range and destructive power to engage from a distance to make the helo fairly safe, plus a couple of 20mm rounds will put some worrysome holes in any 20 footer's hull.
You want to STOP their advance, not maybe, possibly scare them a bit.
They are desperate fisherman with nothing to lose but everything to gain.

Regards, Andrew.