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  #1  
Old 07-07-2005, 01:39 PM
phatzih phatzih is offline
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Ocean crossing with motor-yacht

Can a fiberglass motor-yacht cross ocean in safe? And if yes, how big it should be?
Thank you!
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  #2  
Old 07-07-2005, 03:24 PM
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yipster yipster is offline
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same you can ask bout wood, steel, aluminium, papyrus etc.
for ocean crossing other criteria are to consider but i think they done it allready in a barrel
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  #3  
Old 07-07-2005, 05:25 PM
phatzih phatzih is offline
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But?

I know it might seem a funny question but I can not find a clear answer on the web. I found some web sites about tras-Atlantic rallies and that they have a certain division for motor yachts but nothing about the requirements. I mean is it safe to cross the Atlantic with a 30-40 motor cruiser like the Doral, Fairline, Four Winns and the Bayliner range or it is a stupid idea? And if so, then what is the minimum size of a powerboat to be consider for crossing oceans....?
Thanks
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2005, 08:10 PM
KCook KCook is offline
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The issue with the usual cruisers is not so much the size as how they are built. More for coastal work than trans-ocean. Good bang-for-the-buck, but the serious offshore boats come with a high price.

Kelly Cook
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2005, 08:31 PM
ABoatGuy ABoatGuy is offline
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phatzih,

I don't know how transoceanic rallies work but I would think range would be a huge issue with any of the boats you have mentioned and I don't think any of the manufacturers would endorse a transoceanic trip in these boats (if for no other reason then to keep their legal staffs happy). That said, anything is possible. What could work OK in ideal conditions could be a life threatening disaster if things turned nasty.

The oceans of the world have been traversed by some pretty strange "craft", but I think the "stupid idea" description works well in this case.

:-) As someone famous once said "Just my opinion, but I could be wrong"
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2005, 08:58 PM
phatzih phatzih is offline
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Thank you for your replies. If I got it right, the answer is “it is not recommended but is possible”. So those beautiful and stylish cruisers can actually make it “to the other side” and are not just sailboats or big-ugly-aluminium fishing boats that cross the Atlantic. And joining an organised transatlantic rally with a Bayliner is safe (in the worst case the big, ugly boats will save you ). In other words, whatever can go from UK to Greece can also go to California (in ideal conditions)
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2005, 11:18 PM
mackid068 mackid068 is offline
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It's a YES, a definate yes. But the best thing to do is a nice, safe, 40'+ fiberglass or steel or aluminium trawler such as a Nordhavn. Check out nordhavn.com By the way, how's the Bayliner build quality? I've only heard poor things. And what's the boat you're going to cross in? Hardtop?
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  #8  
Old 07-07-2005, 11:39 PM
KCook KCook is offline
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I would say "no", not definite yes. Or at least the risks would be unacceptable to me. Different folks have very different views on risk factors.

Kelly
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  #9  
Old 07-08-2005, 12:15 AM
mackid068 mackid068 is offline
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No? It's definately POSSIBLE, but not SMART, especially in such a poor quality boat as a Bayliner...maybe in a trawler type vessel or a converted commercial vessel if not a proper cruising sailboat (with a nice keel).
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  #10  
Old 07-08-2005, 01:50 AM
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Massagemaking vessels (ocean crossing boats) are built with a different set of requirements and design decisions, then the local harbor play toy of the folks who've gotten a second mortgage.

You could cross the ocean in a 12' jon boat if you were well prepared and were really into pain and bailing, but it wouldn't be advisable without a support craft (likely a hefty passagemaker with the sane people aboard) to dig you out of the holes you likely get yourself into.

Typical issues are the ability to carry enough fuel for 3,000 plus miles, a hull form and size to insure a level of safety and comfort you can live with, scantlings and construction methods that will maintain the wet stuff on the outside of the craft, provisions stowage, navigation requirements, plumbing facilities, drinking water and a host of other issues that need addressing.

A passagemaker is self reliant, carries all she needs and generally can repair herself in the event of routine break downs. Anything other then a real passagemaker, requires a support vessel, like rowing across the Atlantic in a dinghy or puttering across in a jon boat. The smaller the boat, the larger the support craft needs to be. You're not really crossing the ocean in a row boat, but actually rowing a boat in the ocean. The support vessel carries the food, fuel and dry toilet paper, etc. all things you can't do without, so really your just rowing a boat in the ocean or puttering a jon boat in the ocean, not making a passage. A passage requires redundancy, power, stores and ability to handle what may come.

The local harbor queen, with fancy tri-color cove stripes and all in one, plastic combination galley/head/standup shower stall/nav. station will be ill equipped to survive conditions in open water. Generally these boats are for protected or semi-protected waters, found near shore. These boats are easily recognizable, they have a cup holder in the head, next to the laptop power port. They can't carry the gear, food, supplies, fuel, water, nor do you want to be boarded by any waves or in seas very big. One good wave can wipe the roof right of the cabintop on one of these puddle hoppers, don't even talk about the acres of windows (they're not ports on these boats) that will be stoved in on the first boarding sea. If it gets tossed off a 30' wave crest and crashes down the face into the trough, it will likely pop it's deck to hull joint.

Log onto Bayliner's web site and get an estimate for fuel consumsion on a boat in the size range you'll be interested in. Then figure out how many gallons of fuel you'll need to have aboard to provide 3,000 - 3,500 miles of steaming ability. You'll have to install 1,000 gallon fuel bladders everywhere, arranged in every space available and on deck, just to have the range.

The choice of hull material has nothing to do with the ability of a yacht to be a passagemaker.

There's a reason passagemakers cost so much . . . There's also an old saying about never being at sea in a boat smaller then the waves you'll meet.
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2005, 02:13 AM
KCook KCook is offline
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PAR said it better than I could. Just want to add that even being shepherded by a support craft is no sure thing. In a severe storm you will become separated from your support craft. Then all he can do is supply your last known position for your memorial service.

Kelly
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  #12  
Old 07-08-2005, 06:15 AM
FAST FRED FAST FRED is offline
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Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big dock & room for O'nite stop .
That being stated ., a smalish craft , designed and constructed for the job can readily cross oceans.

20ft sail boats have circumnavigated , but of course they didn't need to worry about carring fuel for 2500 to 3000 miles.

35 to 40 ft is considered the bottom size for a couple , with some minimum of comforts

An ocean designed 35 ft power boat could easily have 3000 mile range , esp with a well selected modern diesel .

The cost would be 3 or 4X what a production cookie would cost , as the hull would be 4 times as sturdy , the cabin glass 10X as expensive , as would ocean grade hatches .

Can you do it ?, Sure if you can afford a cu$tom build.

Can a stunt be done in a plastic cheapo? ,
maybe , but your risking the crews life every single inch of ocean crossing.

FAST FRED
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  #13  
Old 07-08-2005, 09:38 AM
phatzih phatzih is offline
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Thank you for your replies. I am far from planning this trip yet. I am thinking of buying a 27-30 feet cruiser next year. I mainly want it for cruising the Mediterranean (Spain and Greek islands). My first choice are the Chaparral 270 (http://www.chaparralboats.com/sig270.asp) and Cruiser 280 (http://www.cruisersyachts.com/cruisers_content.html). So I was thinking that if a bigger one (30-40 feet) enables me to travel worldwide then it worth saving for a couple of years more as well as getting a bigger loan to buy a 30-40 feet. Of course I am not considering boats like Nordhavn (www.nordhavn.com) which is exactly what I mean when saying “big-ugly-aluminium fishing boats”. Comparing those boats with beauties like the Sessa range (www.sessamarine.com) is like comparing my girlfriend with Kylie Minogue …my girlfriend can do the job well but if I had to pay £100.000 for the job I would rather pay Kylie. Unfortunately according to your replies a 30-40 feet cruiser like those I am looking can not do the job at all. So I will better stick with the 27-30 feet range which cost less than £100.000 and can at least sail the Mediterranean (according to what dealers say)….as the song goes…”I've never been to the USA I am slave on a minimum wage Detroit, New York and LA, but I'm stuck in the UK”
Thank you all…
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  #14  
Old 07-08-2005, 03:42 PM
woodboat woodboat is offline
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I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can't stand those bubble looking inverted turtle designs that people call sleek. I would much rather have the nordhavn. I also like this http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...57&slim=quick& My current boat is a 50 ft Burns craft houseboat. Who cares what the people you cruise by think. I much prefer comfort onboard for myself and guests. I suggest you find a boat that is usefull for your needs foremost.
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  #15  
Old 07-08-2005, 05:32 PM
KCook KCook is offline
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If your interest is U.S. built cruisers, then here is a good discussion on another site -

BoatUS Club House Messageboards : ... : Trailerable Cruisers

Kelly
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