making my cabin cruiser more efficient

[mitch]

I also own a 1989 Bayliner 2855 Cierra Sun Bridge boat. It also has the 7.4lt Volvo Penta with a OMC Cobra drive. My boat weighs about 7500 lbs. I do love the overal design and the style. I was told by a mechanic that I trust to acelarate slowly in order not to spin the hub in the prop. My prop is a 3 blade stainles. 14and a half inch x 14and a half inc pitch. I can cruise at 29 mph with a fuel burn of 16gph . I did trim my drive all the way in and my tabbs down at about a 7 degrees. I do have trim tabb indicators installed.

[Willallison]

Well if ever there was a false statement made, I'm afraid I've just read it.

Remember that a Bay Liner is a Bay boat not an ocean going boat. It is made better than a Sea Ray but with less advertising.

The Brunswick corporaton own both Searay and Bayliner (as well as Mercury, Sealine, Maxum and a whole host of other brands). Each of their brandnames is aimed at a particular market segment. Bayliner is (and always has been) the entry level brand - the boats are aimed at getting people (in particular 1st time boaters) on the water at the lowest possible price. It's true that quality control has improved immeasurably over the past few years - but Bayliner is still aimed at this particular market segment. Searay, on the other hand, lies towards the other end of the mass-produced production cruiser spectrum. They are aimed at capturing those buyers prepared to pay a little more for a higher level of finish and build quality. You only have to climb aboard a comparable pair of boats at any boat show and the difference is immediately apparent..... the way in which carpet edging is finished, the insides of cupboards and the sturdiness of fittings are all indicative of the quality difference between the two brands.
There is nothing wrong with a Bayliner, just as there's nothing wrong with a Toyota. But it ain't no Mercedes. The Brunswick Corp. are hardly likely to build two similar brands - one of a higher quality than another - and then effectively lie to all its customers by advertising them as the opposite.......

[FRANKIEFRANKIE]

That is what they count on the public being so nieve. Being one and running in the circles with others.

I know that Fountain turns his boats over a straightens them.
I know Active Thunder straightens his.

Very few companies straighten their boats or their molds. It is cheaper to put in more power for the production boat which is what you are talking about. It would really be nice to have an informed public. Remember you are talking about Corporations which is bottom line.

[Willallison]

I'm not suggesting that Searay - or any other mass-production builder - operates to the same exacting standards as someone like Fountain (nor is the same level of build required given the performance differences). Many a custom builder would exceed the build quality of most that Brunswick produces and there are also plenty of production builders who produce better built boats. I'm merely pointing out that you are wrong in suggesting that Bayliners are built to a higher quality than Searays.

[Willallison]

One further thing on this point, which goes back to one of my earlier comments.
Let's assume that you are correct and Bayliners are indeed a superior product. It stands to reason that they would be more expensive to produce. Yet Bayliner sell them for significantly less than a similar sized Searay and sell many, many more of them too. Now why would Brunswick (as the greedy corporate crooks that you regard them as) sell a superior product for less money than they can get for something which costs them less to produce, when they could just as easily reverse the market positions of the two brands. It simply doesn't make sense.
We at leat agree one one thing - it would be nice to have an informed public - any naivety displayed here I don't believe to have been mine.....

[Jeff]

Good - I'm glad Will posted because I had the same reaction having always found SeaRays to be at least one full notch above Bayliners in production quality. Then again it has been five years or more since I've been on a Bayliner so it's certainly possible something has changed in all that time, but I would still be surprised.

[Jeff]

On the other hand, things are shaking up a bit at Bayliner as Brunswick launched the new Meridian brand for motoryachts over 30' and Bayliner is reduced to yachts under 30' now... possibly it is just a case of the entry-level name being associated with quality of yesterday, but...

[Willallison]

News on these events tends to run a few months late for me here in Oz, Jeff - has it actually been announced that Bayliner will restricted to sub 30ft?
Not too surprising really. In moving into ever larger boats, Bayliner was forced to move upmarket, crowding the other brands - like Searay - which Brunswick owns. Though I'm still a little confused - if all they've done is to split the model range either side of 30ft and called the bigger boats by a new name, then they haven't really addressed this problem. I suspect that there may be a few more changes to come. Perhaps Searay will build only Express cruiser type big boats, leaving the motoryachts to Meridian?
And then there's Maxum too......

[Jeff]

I haven't heard if there will be any changes to the SeaRay lineup. It appears that Maxum and Bayliner will be small sportboats, deckboats, and overnighters for the short term future at least. I honestly don't follow Bayliner closely enough to be able to say what exact roles existing vs. future sales, dealer networks, name reputation and branding, etc. had on the decision. And I'm not sure whether it was a proactive move (eliminating overlap, utilizing existing production facilties with a better branding) or a retroactive move (responding to long term sales pattens and seeing if a new brand would allow them to capture an even larger share of the market.) But it was probably a good decision.

August 8, 2002
Brunswick takes the wraps off Meridian
NEW YORK CITY — Brunswick Corp. today unveiled its new Meridian Yachts line at a gala Chelsea Piers launch party for VIPs, dealers and the media.

“Today’s launch of Meridian is proof again that Brunswick is the global leader in the marine industry,” chairman and CEO George W. Buckley said in remarks prepared for delivery later this afternoon. “In many ways we are constantly pushing the edge of the proverbial envelope, taking a look at the marine industry and asking what we could be, rather than being content to work with what is.”

Meridian Yachts, which replace large Bayliners and Maxums in the Brunswick lineup, will consist of seven models, ranging from 34 to 58 feet. Five of the models — a 341 Sedan, 381 Sedan, 411 Aft Cabin, 540 Pilothouse and 580 Pilothouse — were on-hand for a sneak preview and demo rides in New York Harbor.

All feature what Meridian is calling its “dock on command” system, a joystick-operated control system that Brunswick says makes for much easier docking in tight spaces.

Meridian Yachts president Bill Barrington, who also heads Brunswick’s US Marine operation, said he and his team began to conceive Meridian more than a year ago.

“Our research showed there was a segment of boating enthusiasts who wanted more from their vessel,” Barrington said. “Conventional designs were falling short. Some fresh thinking was needed. We brought our design team together and asked them to leave convention behind.”

Barrington said the team “started with many of the most popular elements of our Bayliner and Maxum motoryachts, and added specific features to provide superior cruisability.”

The result, he said, was Meridian, which will be coming to market during the 2003 model year.

“Meridian Yachts are designed, engineered and constructed to exceed the cruising and functional space needs of boaters who want to maximize their time and enjoyment on the water,” said Dustan E. McCoy, president of the Brunswick Boat Group. “We focused on serious boaters who are looking for a motoryacht they can cruise in, with built-in comfort and high-quality features. They seek spaciousness, function and durability in a traditional style.”

Much of the attention was focused on the DOC system, which enables a skipper to maneuver the bow or stern of the boat by using an intuitive joystick. “The captain stays in complete control of the vessel under even the most challenging conditions,” said Barrington.

July 9, 2002
Brunswick launching new yacht line
Brunswick Corp. is planning a gala launch party next month to unveil what it is calling “the most significant product introduction our industry has seen in years,” but one that is upsetting some of Brunswick’s Bayliner dealers.

On Aug. 8 and 9, the Lake Forest, Ill.-based manufacturer will host the world premiere of its new Meridian Yachts division. The company plans to introduce this new line of sedans and pilothouse motoryachts for the 2003 model year.

Brunswick executives did not return phone calls Monday and today seeking details on the new yachts — such as size, market, manufacturing facilities and distribution plans. There has been concern among some Brunswick dealers, however, that Meridian is part of a corporate strategy to split off larger Bayliner yachts into the new Meridian line, and reserve the new boats for MarineMax, Brunswick’s (and the world’s) largest boat retailer.

“Meridian Yachts is the spinoff of the Bayliner yacht,” one Brunswick dealer said this morning. “MarineMax will be the dealer of choice in each market.”

“They’re giving it to MarineMax as a Sea Ray entry level,” said another dealer, who says he now is limited to selling boats smaller than 30 feet.

One industry observer says, however, that some Bayliner dealers — those without a competing MarineMax in the same market — will be able to sell the Meridian boats.

...

From http://www.tradeonlytoday.com

Bayliner concentrates on its core business

Meanwhile, Bayliner also is undergoing some significant changes for 2003 as the company focuses the brand on the affordable boating category.

Bayliner saw a reduction in its number of models for the 2002 model year, from 80 to 52 models, as the company streamlined its collection, creating a "smarter" line-up, said the company.

For 2003, Bayliner will reduce its boat lineup from models 16 feet in length to those in the low 30-foot range, said Taylor.

"That's where the business has been for Bayliner and where it will be," he explained.

While this represents a reduction in range, the company is also adding new Bayliner deck boats and runabouts, Taylor said.

...

Meridian Yachts to inhabit former Bayliner factory

The manufacturing of the new line will be based in a 100 percent dedicated Meridian Yacht plant in Arlington, Washington, said Taylor.

The plant most recently was used to manufacturer Bayliner yachts and other Bayliner models, he added.

Bill Barrington will serve as president of Meridian Yachts, Taylor confirmed.

...

Maxum also undergoes change

In conducting consumer and dealer research, US Marine has found that the upscale consumer it is targeting for its Maxum brand not only consists of the 45- to 65-year olds it previously targeted — it also consists of a significant portion of consumers that are younger and more active, said Taylor.

In response, US Marine has re-energized the Maxum brand for 2003, providing a new youthful look in the interior, including a metallic dash, and new colors, according to Taylor.

The new brand positioning includes a focus on runabouts and express cruising models, with a few prior models being discountinued, including flybridge models, he said.

While Taylor admitted that not everyone is satisfied when significant changes are made, he said the vast majority of attendees at the company's recent Maxum and Bayliner dealer meetings were positive about the changes.

From http://boating-industry.com/News.asp?mode=4&N_ID=32971

[FRANKIEFRANKIE]

PRECIEVED VALUE. ADVERTISING WORKS.

[BJB]

I also have a 2858 Bayliner (1985). I made a very simple and effective change to what is already a great boat*. I pulled the 5.7 litre engine (with a two-bolt main!!) and dropped in a stroked and bored small block Chevy 383 (4-bolt main). With an Eidlebrock Hi-Rise Intake and a set of ported aluminum GLM exhaust manifolds (modified for fresh water cooling) I am achieving 350 hp with a minimal fuel increase. I basically changed a Volvo engine to a Mercruiser (alt brackets, hand-made aluminum exhaust from 4" to 3") and kept the Volvo 280 leg.

A different prop is needed as it currently has a 15" prop with a 17" pitch which throws the boat out of the hole but I think a 21" pitch would give it better overall performance. Let me know if anyone wants any further details or have any ideas on pitching the prop properly, it took a lot of trial and error to achieve the performance we were looking for (along with signifigant weight reduction vs hp)

I have also been looking for the original specifications for this boat and if anyone can help me with that it would be greatly appreciated.

John

*Yes, I said Bayliner made a great boat. Period. Its 20-year old finish has been complimented by surveyors, mechanics, woodworkers - and even sailors have commented on the many intelligent design ideas in this craft. Ohmigawd ; ]

Aside from price, it has outlasted and outshines many Sea Rays and Chris Crafts from the same era and contains woodwork of a style that you simply don't see anymore. So gentlemen, allow me to enjoy my vessel without your little digs and I will continue my practice of assisting the floundering Commanders, Zeta's and Uniflites that I have towed into safe waters. My thanks ; ]

[longliner45]

back to ptmans question,,,vinal coat(bottom paint) will give a a knot or two of speed..maybe more ..dont know the layout of your boat .some pics would be helpfull,I am not a bayliner fan nor searay,but they both have qualitys I like ,and when I purchase a boat I look at superstructor and lines not the cabinets ,,before I puchase any boat I insist that it is pulled for inspection,,if I dont buy ,,I pay for the pull ,,and vice versa,longliner

[Frosty]

[quote=mitch; I was told by a mechanic that I trust to acelarate slowly in order not to spin the hub in the prop.[/QUOTE]


Thats a very interesting theory and one that I have given thought , However I dont agree.

The prop bush will seperate if torques exeeds its limitations.

The engines max torque will be at a specific point say 3000 RPM
below or above this point max torque can not be achieved.

Nursing a prop up onto the plane I have never heard of before,

The 'cush bush' as we used to call them are for absorbing the shock of gear selection and is well capable of trasmitting the power needed for the size of the propellor.

[charmc]

[quote=mitch; I was told by a mechanic that I trust to acelarate slowly in order not to spin the hub in the prop.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Thats a very interesting theory and one that I have given thought , However I dont agree.

Frosty, emm, umm, how do I put this to you gently ... uhmmm, because I do like and respect you, even when you talk about your fixation on Asian prostitutes, uhmm, well, here goes, .... Frosty, you're responding to a comment by a guy who stopped posting on this forum 5 years ago.

[Frosty]

Oh yeah-- ha ha -I just looked .

Duh I feel really silly now, but thanks for telling me gently.