Looking to Buy our FIRST Boat

[tullupump]

Well, after years of talking about it, my wife and I are about to purchase our first boat. We have it down to a 2002 Monterey 218LS Montura OR a 2005 Bayliner 210 Classic. They both have a list price of approx. 24K

Any suggestions from folks on this forum will be grately appreciated.

[lazeyjack]

I have a suggestion, please get a very knowledgable person to study the BOTTOM, THE ENTRY I can not tell you how important this is, i do not know the other makes but the bayliners I have ridden in, slam so baly in any weather, you knock your teeth out, you and wife would be very unhappy
You need a deep vee entry. bayiners are like spoon shaped forwards
This is the first thing you must consider
i have build many power boats from 6-10m, and I know that they are either pleasure boats or boats for misery, good luck!! send pics of the boats head on on the trailor please I will tell you their ride charecteristics

[marshmat]

Well, for starters, welcome aboard the forum, tullupump
Now lazeyjack may not be the most eloquent man alive, but he's got a good point. What hull shape you need is determined by where and how you use the boat, and in what weather. This more than anything will determine how much you end up liking the boat.
Now having said that, I took the liberty of looking up what Monterey and Bayliner have been building lately from the moulds your candidate boats came from. Both appear to be 20-degree deep V hullforms of similar overall proportions and shape. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if both had the same 4.3 litre V6 spinning an Alpha sterndrive.
Monterey is known for fairly good build quality and reasonably high-grade hardware and equipment. They're a mass production builder but they work on a smaller scale than Bayliner, putting more labour and time into each boat. As a result they are rather on the pricey side when new, compared to similar boats from their main competitors. I think of them as being roughly on par with Doral, perhaps a bit above Chaparral and not quite up to Ebbtide. Others will undoubtedly have different opinions and there's about 40 other builders you'll find in this class.
Bayliner has a bit of a reputation for building poor-riding, excessively flexible hulls, beautifully clad in multicolour gelcoat and vinyl with sleek lines and raked windshields, but also with cheap plastic through-hulls and rat's-nest wiring. Most that I've seen have cleats two sizes too small and windshields that bend when you push them.
If I were in your place I'd be leaning towards the Monterey, simply because of the company's vastly better reputation, even though it's three years older. Whichever you choose, make your offer conditional on a satisfactory survey result. Find a marine surveyor who knows fibreglass and gas engines, and have him look over the motor, drive and hull. Interior or cosmetic problems aren't much of a worry, but the surveyor might be able to find some hidden flaw in the motor, or defect in the hull, that would be good to know about before you buy.

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Well, for starters, welcome aboard the forum, tullupump
Now lazeyjack may not be the most eloquent man alive, but he's got a good point. What hull shape you need is determined by where and how you use the boat, and in what weather. This more than anything will determine how much you end up liking the boat.
Now having said that, I took the liberty of looking up what Monterey and Bayliner have been building lately from the moulds your candidate boats came from. Both appear to be 20-degree deep V hullforms of similar overall proportions and shape. I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if both had the same 4.3 litre V6 spinning an Alpha sterndrive.
Monterey is known for fairly good build quality and reasonably high-grade hardware and equipment. They're a mass production builder but they work on a smaller scale than Bayliner, putting more labour and time into each boat. As a result they are rather on the pricey side when new, compared to similar boats from their main competitors. I think of them as being roughly on par with Doral, perhaps a bit above Chaparral and not quite up to Ebbtide. Others will undoubtedly have different opinions and there's about 40 other builders you'll find in this class.
Bayliner has a bit of a reputation for building poor-riding, excessively flexible hulls, beautifully clad in multicolour gelcoat and vinyl with sleek lines and raked windshields, but also with cheap plastic through-hulls and rat's-nest wiring. Most that I've seen have cleats two sizes too small and windshields that bend when you push them.
If I were in your place I'd be leaning towards the Monterey, simply because of the company's vastly better reputation, even though it's three years older. Whichever you choose, make your offer conditional on a satisfactory survey result. Find a marine surveyor who knows fibreglass and gas engines, and have him look over the motor, drive and hull. Interior or cosmetic problems aren't much of a worry, but the surveyor might be able to find some hidden flaw in the motor, or defect in the hull, that would be good to know about before you buy.

Marsh, i just dont have time to post eloquent letters, if you bothered to take time, or gave me your number you would see I am not the complete ass you think I am,) I read french, read heaps adn am learning Ru
What I have , is a lifetime of building, sailing, planning, all manner of watercraft. I dont try to gain points by drivelling on, trying to be super polite, I just try tell it how it is
I oft detect running through threads here and there, a desparation by some, to be heard, no matter what, even if what they espouse they have only read about,
I really do not care whether or not people take my advise,it's over to them
My very educated mate, turned up here abt a year back, towing a bayliner, bowrider, brand new!! he did this without any experience of buying boats, without consulting me.My heart sank, we went out to sea, and the breeze was nil , but a slight and close low swell remained, , It was awful, bone breaking, and thats my point, people dont look at the entry, they look at the colour of the seats
I dont have a clue as to what the above models are all about, you have seen em I have not. Cheers

[lazeyjack]

try find a bow more like this,
this is a big trailor gamefisher I built for the very rough waters off NZ, she has wide chines aft, and is dry and cuts though the water

[marshmat]

No offence was meant, lazeyjack. My point above was that you tend to pack a lot of useful and important information in your posts on here, cryptic though the wording may be on occasion
Now as to the boats....neither will have the smooth ride in chop of the gamefisher above. They're both designed for small inland lakes, river running, and short inshore cruises in good weather. The 18' runabout is probably one of the most popular styles of small craft, and with good reason- they're nice, easy to run, practical boats for the kind of weather most new boaters like to be out in. None of them will take you offshore, nor will they take you on long cruises; they're just fun, practical day boats for families and friends who like to zip around on the lake on a good day.

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by marshmat

No offence was meant, lazeyjack. My point above was that you tend to pack a lot of useful and important information in your posts on here, cryptic though the wording may be on occasion
Now as to the boats....neither will have the smooth ride in chop of the gamefisher above. They're both designed for small inland lakes, river running, and short inshore cruises in good weather. The 18' runabout is probably one of the most popular styles of small craft, and with good reason- they're nice, easy to run, practical boats for the kind of weather most new boaters like to be out in. None of them will take you offshore, nor will they take you on long cruises; they're just fun, practical day boats for families and friends who like to zip around on the lake on a good day.

funny you shud say this, my family say same thing abt my sms,s that arrive when I'm away, I think I no longer have the patience that I once had. I found that with my staff too, the bright ones and I got on well, the duffers, well being hands on, I always ran out of patience, I'm aware of my failings! Also I'm pretty fed up at not being able to get to grips with CAD, no matter how I try, I think I'm going to have to take schooll, but God knows where I know the full on things run by Rhino and the like are expensive, and I would probably struggle to keep up anyways It is a pity noone is near to where I live from the Forums .Brett is in Bris, but no doubt he has a life to live!!

[KCook]

Originally Posted by tullupump

Well, after years of talking about it, my wife and I are about to purchase our first boat. We have it down to a 2002 Monterey 218LS Montura OR a 2005 Bayliner 210 Classic. They both have a list price of approx. 24K

Any suggestions from folks on this forum will be grately appreciated.

Err, no mention of the motors! The Bayliner is designed for a modest motor, the heavier Monterey is not. I would prefer the Monty myself, but it needs a V8. Perferably with at least 240hp. Which would mean a 5L with EFI or a 5.7L with carburetor.

Here is a thread on another site that talks about the Bayliners -

http://boards.trailerboats.com/cgi-b...c;f=2;t=000007

Kelly Cook

[rheyboer]

Tullupump:

Where are you going to use it?

[tullupump]

Thanks folks for all your advice and suggestions. My apologies for not being a little more descriptive about how and where we would use it.

We went into this with 3 main criteria.

1. Be able to Ski (we have an 11 yr. old)
2. Be able to maneuver easily given I am a rookie at boats
3. Still be large enough to just go cruising aroundand take a nap if someone is tired.

We plan to have it docked at a marina in the Chain' o lakes in the Chicago area. After reading some of the posts here and speaking with friends who know us, we are coming to the conclusion that getting a boat with a "cuddy" is probably not such a great idea. Everyone tells us that the cuddy just becomes a big storage area.

So now it is back to trying to find a boat with that still meets our 3 criteria but I will have to learn to take a nap in the open bow....

[lazeyjack]

Originally Posted by tullupump

Thanks folks for all your advice and suggestions. My apologies for not being a little more descriptive about how and where we would use it.

We went into this with 3 main criteria.

1. Be able to Ski (we have an 11 yr. old)
2. Be able to maneuver easily given I am a rookie at boats
3. Still be large enough to just go cruising aroundand take a nap if someone is tired.

We plan to have it docked at a marina in the Chain' o lakes in the Chicago area. After reading some of the posts here and speaking with friends who know us, we are coming to the conclusion that getting a boat with a "cuddy" is probably not such a great idea. Everyone tells us that the cuddy just becomes a big storage area.

So now it is back to trying to find a boat with that still meets our 3 criteria but I will have to learn to take a nap in the open bow....

no dont do that , a cuddy will keep you dry and warm when the weather changes, and BELIEVE me it changes, and fast, one minute, sun shines, flat water, next all hell can break loose, be prepared, a cuddy holds all you need, from fishing gear, to lifejackets, to lunch, and at 20 feet two nice bunks, so you can hole up with your wife and well you get my drift?)) enjoy,

[KCook]

You can find strong views for both bowriders and for cuddys. Very much a personal choice. Not a slam-dunk choice either way. All of my boats were open, no cabin. But in a boat over 24', then I would be tempted by a cabin. Here is a good thread about this topic on another site -

BoatingABC.com » ... » Bitten by boat bug: Cuddy or bowrider?

Kelly

[rheyboer]

Be VERY carefull in the chain. Low water and lots of drunks. Do not be out there on a Saturday night. Find a quite place for skiing and do it early in the day. Having said that I think a bowrider will be a lot more fun for your kids; and their friends. You can take one out on Lake Michigan assuming wind is Not from East or North and waves are 2' or less. Have a radio and a cell phone with the coast guard # already programmed. Enjoy.

[tullupump]

Well the saga continues but we hope to end it today. It is now down to a 2004 Chaparral 235 SSI Cuddy or a Monterey 248 LSC Mondura Cuddy. We settled on the cuddy and went up in size a bit to get a little more room. We hope that skiing will be OK with either of these boats.

Any suggestions?

Thanks for taking the time to guide us thru this maze of boating. We are looking forward to enjoying years of boating...

[marshmat]

Skiing will probably be possible with both those boats, although neither will come close to a 19' Mastercraft for watersports. The wake will be too high and sharp for a hardcore skier, but will probably be acceptable for recreational skiing.
What are the engine/drive combinations in the boats you're considering?
From what I've seen and heard about those builders, you're now looking at two boats of similar hull form, similar layout and similiar initial build quality. The decision will have to be based on the condition and features of the individual boats. When you think you've made up your mind, spend the few hundred dollars to hire a marine surveyor for a few hours. He'll make sure the hull and structure is sound, the electrics are up to par, the motor's not in immediate danger of killing itself, etc. Any flaws he finds become chips in your hand at the negotiating table; if the surveyor finds a defect but you still want the boat, his report is good grounds for reducing the price accordingly.