Improving handling in following seas

[Roy23]

Good point Zappi, it is not comparing apples to apples. I see now that the Bayliner is More of a displacement hull, hence the volvo 120hp engine. Also my appraisal of their quality may not be fair as the 2670 is one of their motoryachts and I have experience with their runabouts, which probably are not as well built. Still, I would not get the one with the (only) 50 hp outboard "custom" mounted on the transom.

[Zappi]

Journey, please.... For everyones sake. Forget about the outboard Exploder. Hahahahaha! They want that much for it and it doesnt even have a pro bracket job??? Yikes. There are many of those boats for sale and they shouldnt be more than 8k US and that should be loaded. Not loaded like the guy asking 16k though. There's a Tollycraft 26' on Bainbridge Island for 9995 right now. Not comparable in too many respects as they have a 10' beam and weigh a bit more, but..... Fantastic and salty 26' boats!!!

[Easy Rider]

My opnion is that these boats are full planing types and need to get to about 18 knots to perform satisfactorily. At any slower speed these boats will perform badly in almost all respects like the same type in even the most respected brands and by the most respected designers. Under powering a boat does not make it a semidisplacement or displacement boat. For a 25' trailerable boat with excellent performance at 7 knots, excellent sea worthyness that burns 2 to 3 quarts of fuel per hour and will make 10 knots look at the Albin 25. It's a Swedish boat from the 70s and will cost you 15 to 20K. You'll probably get it all back when you sell too as their reputation is excellent. I had one and ran it from Seattle to Juneau Alaska in 03. Oil has been so cheap there are very few boats that perform well at slow speeds and the average person thinks a boat should go fast like a car because they spend so much time in cars. Could you build?

Easy Rider

[erikgreen]

Apples and oranges.

Commercial boats, most ships, and purpose designed oceangoing vessels are very different from a Bayliner lake boat.

If you've got a boat with a displacement hull and a well maintained diesel, sure, go with one engine and keep spare parts on board.

For a Bayliner with a gas engine, keep a spare engine on board.

Erik

[Easy Rider]

EriK,

different from a Bayliner lake boat.

What's a Bayliner lake boat?


If you've got a boat with a displacement hull and a well maintained diesel, sure, go with one engine and keep spare parts on board.

Whats it got to do with a displacement hull?

For a Bayliner with a gas engine, keep a spare engine on board.

Modern gas engines are about as reliable as diesels.

Respectfully, Easy Rider

[tkinak]

I may be a little late responding but if you can't make your Bayliner perform satisfactorily and are looking for a different boat both trailerable and seaworthy. A fried has logged many hours in the open ocean salmon trolling in one of these.

http://www.allweatherboats.com/index.html

[TollyWally]

I bet that boat is pretty good out in the ocean trolling for salmon.

[Easy Rider]

Thanks for posting the picture. Now that I see what boat wer'e talking about (I had thought of another BL) I can say for sure this is an underpowered planing hull. I was drawn to them a bit in the past but it's like the Grand Banks 36 and 42 with one 120hp engine. A planing hull w displacement boat power. The GBs should have a proper displacement hull that carries the water gracefully to the surface at the stern. This means the quarter beam buttock line (QBBL) should rise as it goes aft from midships. A typical deep Vee has constant deadrise but the 26 BL Explorer's QBBL actually goes down. Another boat w the same aft shape is the older 34' Mainship and they have a nasty reputation for following sea handling problems and I'm quite sure the BL 26 Explorer performs in the same negative way. Both these boats are warped in the after plane (decreasing deadrise all the way to the transom) and both lack bouyancy at the fwd cheeks. In following seas I consider this to be a double negative. In defense of the two designs I'm quite sure both are very efficient at low planing speeds and I'm sure the designers were focused on that. The "Handy Billy" is a good example of an excellent design for speeds above displacement and below planing. The Bayliner Ex 26 has what appears to be a high CG, lots of windage and a fairly narrow beam. If you can find one buy an Albin 25. They are powered by 25 to 40hp diesels and w 35hp can cruise at 9 knots w less than 1 gph. Good designs in that speed range are hard to find .. good luck.

Easy Rider

[Willallison]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider

.... but it's like the Grand Banks 36 and 42 with one 120hp engine. A planing hull w displacement boat power. The GBs should have a proper displacement hull that carries the water gracefully to the surface at the stern. This means the quarter beam buttock line (QBBL) should rise as it goes aft from midships....

The earlier GB's were indeed displacement hulls - hard chine, but displacement boats nonetheless. Their buttock lines were somewhat straighter than many displacement boats, however, which allowed them (with sufficient power) to exceed their theoretical hullspeed, so in some ways they were closer to a semi-displacement hull than a full displacement one. Sadly, GB bowed to customer demand and started installing engines of ever increasing power, which in turn led to a change in the bottom shape to allow more efficient travel at these higher speeds.

I agree with all your other comments, however..... planing hulls make shocking displacement boats....

[Easy Rider]

Will,
An Imagineer may ask why GB offered the 36 and the 42' w one or two 120hp engines. Displacement hulls require so much power to drive them and any more is stupid and a waste. If 120hp was appropriate power then why not 2 60hp engines in the twin and if 240hp was appropriate why not one 240hp in the single? A full displacement boat should be offered by a responsible designer and builder w the appropriate power provided only .. no options. With planing hulls (and to a much lesser degree semi-planing hulls) options make sense. So why were the GBs offered w 100% variation of power options???

Easy

[Willallison]

Ah... the most simple answer of all.... because that's what the customer wanted. Few around here would argue that designers and buildersshould offer vessels that they know are less than ideally powered. The reality is that, if they want to remain in business, often they must.