How will she plane???

[Lynn Taylor]

Point taken. Bluejacket is high on my short list. I already have the plans. Perhaps a Bluejacket/Caballero hybrid will result. It would certainly dispell any fears regarding planing and slow cruising speed. Thanks for the suggestion. Lynn

[Commuter Boats]

Originally Posted by Lynn Taylor

Point taken. Bluejacket is high on my short list. I already have the plans. Perhaps a Bluejacket/Caballero hybrid will result. It would certainly dispell any fears regarding planing and slow cruising speed. Thanks for the suggestion. Lynn

And you previously stated "I was also wondering about increasing the beam about 6 inches."
Blue jacket is a beautiful boat with outstanding performance which is largely due to its lean lines and light displacement. Developing a "Bluejacket/Caballero hybrid " would not be fair to either and if the volume of a given design is not adequate for your purposes, spreading the stations out for a little for more length is safer than adding beam.
Gerald

[Lynn Taylor]

Bluejacket is indeed a beautiful boat. It certainly wasn't my intention to degrade or insult either design. I love both. As has been debated here, there is no perfect design, so we must seek to maximize those features of function and design which appeal to us the most on an individual basis, just as Mr. Lathrop was doing when he designed his boat. I am in that process, and that's why I sought info here. I may very well end up building Bluejacket as designed, but it's fun weighing other options, isn't it. Thanks for your comments. Lynn

[Commuter Boats]

Originally Posted by Lynn Taylor

Bluejacket is indeed a beautiful boat. It certainly wasn't my intention to degrade or insult either design. I love both. As has been debated here, there is no perfect design, so we must seek to maximize those features of function and design which appeal to us the most on an individual basis, just as Mr. Lathrop was doing when he designed his boat. I am in that process, and that's why I sought info here. I may very well end up building Bluejacket as designed, but it's fun weighing other options, isn't it. Thanks for your comments. Lynn

In 1960, 61 my father built a boat quite similar to Caballero (22') and ran the biggest outboard engines there were available, something around 55 hp just off center and an 18 hp which was often ran simultaneously when the boat was heavy. We had a ball and logged a lot of miles in the less than friendly waters of Southeast Alaska, I think the design has a lot to be said for it and building it with modern materials and a modern high thrust outboard would make a lot of sense for the type of boating you've suggested.
My comment seemed to have put you on the defense and I'm sorry, it wasn't my intention.
I completely understand the desire to pursue the optimum design for your anticipated uses as I too was unable to find exactly what I wanted in the work of others.
As a competent mechanic in several fields I chose to draw my own lines and with full knowledge of the risks involved went forward with construction. To date, I've drawn close to 20 boats and built more than half a dozen, most along a similar theme and I've gotten away with it. I guess I consider myself lucky in that I have produced boats that either I could be proud of for the learning experience they provided or boats that have performed well.
I would caution that dabbling in Naval architecture without proper education should be viewed as a high risk endeavor for reasons of safety and financial responsibility, there's been as many or more amateur attempts aborted as has been successful at any level.
I hope that you find a proven design that will work for you or you enlist the services of a professional with a proven track record unless of course you have disposable time and money to invest in a large project that may be fruitless.
I hope that I haven't insulted you by underestimating your training, if that's the case I owe you another apology.
Regardless of what your choices are, I'm sure that you will receive a wealth of information from the members of this forum.
Good luck , Gerald

[Lynn Taylor]

Gerald, No you haven't underestimated my training at all, as I have none, other than looking at internet sites showing boat construction for years. Sorry if I sounded too defensive, and no apologies are necessary. I will heed your advise because my time and money are precious to me. So, if I choose to alter a plan to any extent, I will get sound advice from a professional. Whatever I choose, it needs to be soon since retirement is less than four years away. Thanks for your concerns and advice. Lynn

[Calico Jack]

Originally Posted by Lynn Taylor

I am currently infatuated with the old design, Caballero. It was designed by naval architect Charles Ungerbuehler, probably in the late '40s or early '50s and the offsets and a few diagrams are available free. I have no expertise on boat design other than I have looked at many designs on the internet over the years.
My concern is this:
On most of the modern planing powerboat designs I see, the bottom is completely flat. However on Caballero, the bottom rises from amidship to the transom of the boat. Who am I to question Naval Architect Charles Ungerbuehler, but will this design plane easily, or will the rise in the bottom cause bad behavior in getting up on a plane. I know outboards are much more powerful now. In his design notes, Ungerbuehler mentions 25 and 33 HP motors, which I assume were the most powerful back then. My question to some of you who are much more knowledgeable than I is if you were building this boat, would you go with the designers plan for the bottom, or would you be inclined to alter the plan to straighten the bottom. My hope is that the boat if powered by a 50 to 70 HP motor would plane easily and cruise at around 17 or 18 MPH.
Please excuse my lack of knowledge and poor use of terminology, but your comments would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Lynn

Wow, I found these plans at the same site as Lynn and decided to look further, typed the name into google and found this thread, no i've never built a full sized boat before so have been reading thro the forums with great interest.

I'm a 44 yr old CNC grinder/turner/miller Aerospace, F1 bits n bobs bla bla bla, so complex drawings are second nature and I have machined many boat parts over the years.

I've started a 19inch model (1 inch to 1 foot), I'm using mainly Balsa and thin model aircraft ply coz I having lots left around due to another interest....

I'm pretty OCD when I go at things and really hope to find a home in the forum, if the mods ok it and point me to the correct forum I'll post the foto's of the model build as it comes along before I attempt the full size project.

Kind Regards, Calico Jack.

[Lynn Taylor]

Jack, I would really like to see the photos of your model. If they are posted elsewhere, please post a link here. Thanks, Lynn

[Calico Jack]

Originally Posted by Lynn Taylor

Jack, I would really like to see the photos of your model. If they are posted elsewhere, please post a link here. Thanks, Lynn

Hi Lynn, I'm really glad you posted, If its ok with the mods I'll put the foto's on your thread here, as I said above the google search leads here so that makes sense for anyone else searching, cant wait to crack on with it

Originally Posted by Calico Jack

Hi Lynn, I'm really glad you posted, If its ok with the mods I'll put the foto's on your thread here, as I said above the google search leads here so that makes sense for anyone else searching, cant wait to crack on with it

Go ahead,

we loose nothing, but may earn.............

Regards
Richard

[Jeff]

Look forward to seeing some photographs of the project!

[Easy Rider]

Due to my advanced age I remember outboard cruisers w only 10hp. I wish I knew how big that boat is ..can't quite see. These boats are lighter than the plastic boats in recent years. The deadrise and warp on this boat is (I think) fine. I have a 1953 Motor Boating magazine an in it is an add for the Evinrude "Big Twin" ..25hp. On the back cover there is an add for Chris Craft kit boats and one pictured (18') shows her planing at about 13 knots with (I'm nearly positive) a "Big Twin" and one man and two women aboard. Mostly due to their light weight these older boats planed at much lower speeds. I have a newer 18' outboard that is slightly under powered w 60hp and does not really plane till it gets to nearly 20 knots. Also the old outboards were rated (power) at the crankshaft (not the prop) so a 25hp engine of today may have a bit more power. Lynn, since you have a soft spot for older boats you should see atkinboatplans.com. There is an Atkin Yahoo Group site as well. I have the Atkin site on my bookmarks and frequently browse.

Easy Rider

[Easy Rider]

Lynn,
I've thought about this more and:

1. I actually think the engine on the CC 18' OB cruiser is 10hp. They made their own OB and as I recall they never showed any other make of OB in their adds. The speed in the picture could be as low as 10mph ..but planing.

2. I looked in the Atkin site and found an OB cruiser 22' X 8' that is designed for the "Big Twin" of 25hp and design speed is specified as "17-18mph". The boat is'nt as good looking as yours but it sounds like your'e a modifier (like me) and I think all it needs is a sheer line change. I think he made the sheer line high to make the cabin look lower. I had a 17' plywood Bryant OB cruiser w a 35hp Johnson and cruised at speeds up to 20. I think the designer of your boat is to be believed. Unless your'e going to run the boat w more than 2 people regularly think 30hp 3cyl. Otherwise 40.

Easy

[tunnels]

Typical of a hull of that era Its a smooth water boat ! get into any kind of lumpy water and you will be throttling back to a slow speed .
Dead rise needs to be increased to 15 degrees plus ,minimum 18 is better and take some of the flatness out of the area close to the keel !. The keel needs to go and replace it with a pad starting near the aft end going forward to about 40% the length of the hull to the back then disapating . Your thought of a 70 hp is where i would be starting for sure .
I have a older boat 14 foot and its close to the same shape that you have but the rounded flatish area of the keel is a killer and makes for a very hard riding pounding hull so build it strong !!.
I have a glass hull and have found a way of changing the bottom with a little effort plus adding a couple of lifting strakes to get it up on the plane quicker .
The power trims on newer outboards are far better than the older motors, most never even had trim control just play with the pin and adjust till you got it somewhere near it should be . So rack the transom a little more Than whats on the plans .