Harley 42'

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Guest, Apr 6, 2004.

  1. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member



    My current props are 18X21 3b old style Rolla Choppers. They work excellent in all areas except that they are noisey at cruise speeds. I purchased a set of 17.5X22 4b stainless Rolla cleavers. They are quiet as a mouse, and the boat hit 52 mph with them, but I don't have quite the power to turn them to full WOT rpm.
    So I called Ellis propeller at the suggestion of Rik Wimp. I told John that I wanted a set of 19" 4 blade props. He said that 17" made more sense, so I went with that.
    I get new props, they will not get boat on plane. They blow out just as the bow is coming up. I sent props to a prop shop North of here to add more cup, (at John's suggestion and on his nickel) It made no difference. John said that he would make me a new set. He put me off over and over after many, many phone calls. I have not called him in some time. He told me that the new props were cast and waiting for machining, but who knows.

    John is a nice guy and very friendly on the phone, I just wish I got what I paid for.

    Steve
     
  2. Commuter Boats
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    Commuter Boats Commuter Boats

    Considering what we pay for propellers and what cr@pshot it is as to whether they'll perform, why not just dump a few thousand dollars into those engines and run those Rolla cleavers. How many RPM ( how much horsepower) do you need?
    We bought a six bladed rolla cleaver for one of my projects and when the boat was very light it ran well but the boat worked for a living and its gross weight varied over 30%. I don't think there's been a cleaver made that can handle that much variance in load. For the first six years that vessel was run a 25-year-old three blade rolla was the best prop we had but the noise...
    Gerald
     
  3. pizzacutter
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Location: maryland

    pizzacutter Senior Member

    prop problems

    steve, sorry to hear that you are still having prop problems. as noted in my earlier posts, my props came from John Rose about 6 years ago when i repowered and changed both the trannys and outdrives as well. I did have similar delays from John but fortunately I had a spare set that I could use to get around with. However when I got the props they were pretty close and needed only a small tweak from a local prop shop and I got 5 good years of use until I did another minor change this year(see earlier posts) and now I am even more pleased. What I wanted to mention was that I almost always use the advice of Ken Martin of pacific surface drives for prop changes and he has pretty much been right on every time. Don't know if you have worked with him or not, but my opinion of his knowledge is stellar. Just thought I would chime in. Wish you the best of luck.
     
  4. Commuter Boats
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    Commuter Boats Commuter Boats

    OK, it took some time but I read/scanned the entire thread. Steve you're running drives equivalent to the ASD 6 and you've got 502 gas engines and can only turn 4000 RPM with the Rolla cleavers, in that you can make 52 kts it would seem that you have a fair amount more speed when you fit the right propellers. Getting enough horsepower out of those engines to get your rpm up would be asking a lot of them and then you'd be asking a lot of those drives, but you already knew all of that.
    18 years ago I thought I knew a little about propellers and then I was introduced to surface drives and came to realize how vast of an art/science propellers were.
    I've purchased six Arnesons, all of them ASD 8s for four projects all singles ( two were replacements) but other than being surface drives our projects aren't very similar.
    Not meaning to hijack your thread but I've included a few photos of a couple of my projects as well as a photo of changing a wheel while in the water.
    Gerald
     

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  5. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    single arneson power - interesting - does it pull to the right?
     
  6. Commuter Boats
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Southeast Alaska

    Commuter Boats Commuter Boats

    The quick answer would be no, but in reality, what little pull there is, is easily controlled with a little steering input. I ran one boat that had considerably too much propeller and in an effort to get enough RPM, I ran it trimmed very high. I then entered a narrow channel with a tight turn and found that I didn't have enough helm left to make the turn, a quick down trim was necessary to keep the boat of the beach.
     
  7. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

    I am in the process of converting one engine over to EFI. I have almost enough parts collected to start the install. If the project goes smoothly, I will do both sides.
    With three fuel tanks and fuel manifold, a fuel return to the tank is not practical. So I am rigging up a fuel cooler system. I am going to use a small power steering cooler to do the job. Then plumb the return line back to the spin on fuel filter housing. That is the last trinket item I need to get started.
    I'm sure I will get more power, but not enough to spin those cleavers. they will definitely get tested. Benefits I am looking for: a little more power, better fuel economy, and most of all: instant starts, dependable idle, excellent throttle response.

    Also: I'm sure my Set "A" props are at least 25 yrs old!

    Steve
     
  8. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    nice - post the pictures of the process - sounds like a fun project
     
  9. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

    I just finished another project: stainless trim for the windshield frame. In other words the frame is now wrapped in polished stainless. It turned out great. Well worth the effort. Here are a couple of pictures of the finished product.

    Steve
     

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  10. pizzacutter
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Location: maryland

    pizzacutter Senior Member

    windsheilds...

    steve, great job on the windsheild trim. does it "cap" over at the top or is that 2 seperate pieces 1 inside & 1 outside? The windsheilds used by Harley were of good quality and had good dimensions. Big enough to provide good cover and canvas connectins but not too big to interfere with cockpit. The really cool ones were the curved style only used on a few boats. I think Swamp has one (if you do post some close ups). That windshield makes a harley look like a 5 year old boat. I wish I could switch over to it but I'm sure the cost is outrageous, the polished stainless may be the next best thing. I see you have only limited vents running outside of cockpit to vent the engine room. I have them running the whole length which is overkill and causes too much rain and spray to enter cockpit and engine room. I may try to eliminate some when I repaint. Steve, how about posting some cockpit shots to show the layout. your seats look good, where did they come from?
     
  11. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member


    It is two separate pieces with a butt seam on the top. I have priced the curved ones and they are beautiful, but cost prohibitive. The young fellow who made, and fitted the stainless, made it look easy. I'm sure you could round up someone in your area to do the same job. I can take some close up pictures to you can show to a prospective installer if you are interested.
    I had vents the full length of the engine room when I purchased the boat. They were awful looking plastic ones and they had to go. Since I am using gas engines and not diesel I didn't need near as much air flow, so I eliminated half of them. Then I had bezels for the new vents cut out of stainless and polished them.
    I will get some good pictures of the cockpit the next time I'm at the boat. I had the front seats custom built by Scotties Canvas in FL. They are double wide manual drop out bolsters. They are not fancy, but very well built. I had to guess how high I wanted the seat. The existing ones were too low. When I got the new ones they were too high. So then I had to take them to a local job shop and have them cut down. Then I painted the framing white. Now I'm looking at it trying to figure out how to add some stainless trim. "It never ends"
     
  12. Swamplizard
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Florida

    Swamplizard Senior Member

    looking sweet Steve! Nice work Bro

    Met with a machine shop yesterday....super anal detailed guy with 30 years big motor experience......soon as I land somewhere work-wise I am getting the motors rebuilt with my personal heavy involvement this time.
    If the blocks are sound I am thinking rebuild and stay 502s but change cams and get more torque and HP - something like 520 hp/ 500 torque.

    If rotating assemly is fubared I will go 540cu inches for 650 ft/lbs of torque.

    Been shopping for new gears, extra large heat exchangers and oil coolers......new engine mount stringer "saddles" and such. Pulling one motor (locked up one) in next 2 weeks to see what is in them.

    BTW Steve - guy in NC is selling 500 hour RTO CAT3126s bobtails 420 hp for $18k for the pair. Add gears and diesel genny and you are Alaska bound! Wish I could swing it.
     
  13. pizzacutter
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Location: maryland

    pizzacutter Senior Member

    new floor, etc

    Whats up guys? anybody using thier Harley this summer? I have only put on about 75 hours but they were all good with no major breakdowns! latest project was a new cockpit floor. I had been chasing rot around the old one for decades. I had a guy make a replacement with 3/4" Coosa foam. It weighed 1/2 of the old one. He made the board to fit with a nice top finsih for about $700. i had to grind out and form in for the hinges and latches. I was able to blitz all weekend and with the hot weather the west system was drying in minutes. I was able to finish, paint, and install by Sunday afternoon. I just finshed all the hinge and latch work last night and it works great. I am so used to straining and yanking to open the hatch that I almost hit myself in the nose when I opened the new one. Sorry no photos I was working like a mad man. Still running the boat with outswing props, still like it. Took a trip 2 weeks ago Ocean City, Md. to Va. Beach, Va. and up the Chesapeake bay. About 240 miles. Just me and my girl, light load of gear. On one leg I tested mileage, just @ 1 mpg is about as good as I can get, running about 33kt. Just checking in, post up if anybody has any projects or photos
     
  14. Steve H
    Joined: Aug 2004
    Posts: 268
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    Location: S.W. WashingtonState

    Steve H Senior Member

    Only 75 hours? You poor guy.

    I don't know how many hours I have gotten in this year, but not too bad. Boat has been running good. Mostly short day trips with the wife and kiddys.
    I did get out on a guy trip a few weeks ago. We headed upstream about 60 miles to Portland, OR to watch the Portland Poker Run. We got to see some very cool hardware. Hung out with the gold chain crowd for awhile. Then we found a lagoon inside an island on the way home and barbecued dinner. It was hot and humid, but we were able to sit downstairs and eat in comfort, thanks to the A/C.
    I went out alone lastnight. Boat was light on fuel. Cruised her at 3600 giving me a easy 42mph. I really enjoy the speeds that Harleys are capable of. How many other boats of this size can match this performance using 400 hp engines? Not many I'm sure.
    A friend of mine called me last week and asked for a BIG favor. His daughter is getting married and asked me if I could haul her and six of her friends to Portland for her bachelorette party. It was a tough decision, I said yes anyway. I know he would do it for me:)

    Lets get an update from everyone else.
     

  15. pizzacutter
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Location: maryland

    pizzacutter Senior Member

    Florida for the winter

    Hey Steve, it looks like we are the last of the Mohegans! or maybe the other harley owners are so busy working on thier boat that there is no time to post. We towed the Pizza Cutter to Palm Beach for the winter, day after Christmas. Straight thru 1080 miles, 20 hours, 7mpg with chevy gas dually. Nice ride down, brought my girlfriend and small dog, plus all the other stuff including spare parts, props, etc. Right before I left I had a steering cylinder in shop for rebuild. The ball/socket in the housing attached to transom had frozen. Big Problem! Ended up having to get entire cylinder. Until it arrives I have plugged off the lines and am using only 1 steering cylinder. It works fine. Apparantly there are alot of ASD #8 set ups that use only 1 steering cylinder, but I will put mine back as a twin set up. Make sure to keep ball/socket lubed and free on trim and steering cylinder housings. Already had 1 fishing trip and a short cruise. Planning a Key West cruise soon and a Bahama trip. Nice to get out of chilly North for a while. Will keep boat here till May and go back & forth when time and money allows. I have not tackled Awlgrip project yet, same problems, time and money, but it is on my short list. I have done some other Awlgrip jobs recently though. One was a friends little classic sailbote. We used Seafoam green on a 1965 hull and it looks awesome! Hey Swamp, post up if you are around. I am probably less than 1 hour from your place. Be glad to take you for a cruise, also want to check out your Harley if you still got.
     
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