1980 Sidewinder ID Plate Missing?

[DanFromDaHammer]

Hey there!
I just purchased a 16' 1980 Sidewinder and I can't seem to find the ID plate. All I can see, stamped on the back starboard corner is "Manufactured in Canada" and what appears to be a serial number. There is however a plate for the motor.
My insurance company is currently refusing to insure the thing because they say that the motor is too big for a boat that size. It has a 175 HP Evinrude V6 outboard that the previous owner believes is the original motor for the boat. The insurance company tells me that it should have no more than an 85 HP motor on it and unless the plate specifies otherwise then I'm out of luck as far as insurance goes. I'm having a hard time finding a comparible Sidwinder that has less than a 115 HP motor on it.
My questions are: Is the motor too big? Could the plate have been removed or is this serial number stamped on the back corner all that was put on these things? Is the serial number (assuming it actually is a serial number) like the VIN of a car and therefore decipherable? And finally, are there any Sidwinder resources out there that I could reference to decipher the number and find out more about the boat?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Regards,

Dan

[cyclops]

The USCG has a plate replacement procedure for boats like yours. There are also plate Mfgr. who will make you the replacement plate. Faster neater and quickly LEGAL by all. Post back if you want to do it.

[cyclops]

A faster way to get a plate is probably thru your state Motor Vehicle Agency or whoever gives out HIN#.

[cyclops]

I did a quick check for the MFR. max. hp. It is 135hp for 16' and 150 hp for 18'. Accept it or get no insurance. 135 hp will easily kill you. You can find that on www.fiberglassics.com .Mail a copy from the OB rating chart on the lower left corner of the brochure page. Post back either way.

[Scott_CVX20]

Forget all that. Your Ontario insurance company has a general rule of 25hp per foot. This is what they use to judge it. If you check the plate for a newer Sidewinder, it probably says this (at least on the Canadian one) So a 16' footer maxes at 150HP.

My 78 18' sidwinder, was supposed to max at 175, but had a '81 225 on it (200hp at the shaft) My insurance co just put it down as having a 175. My CVC is an I/O, and has 260+ in a 20 foot boat. Tunnels, and high performance boats are often running in excess of 275-300 HP in 18-20' hulls

Overpowering boats is done all the time, even when they are new, so the motor it has doesn't mean anything. Those boats will carry a 200, as it weighs the same a 150 v6, but just remember that the handling starts to get dicey above 65 mph. You're basically riding the motor and 3 inches of hull at that point.

[Thunderhead19]

All boats manufactured in Canada have to be rated by TC or, back in the 1980's, canadian coast guard. They will have a record of what your boat was rated at. Probably won't cost you more than a phone call to find out.

[marshmat]

As of April 1999, capacity plates are issued by the Canadian Coast Guard. As your boat has a known manufacturer and HIN it should be possible to get what you need with a few phone calls; if the plate's missing the CCG may be able to get you a new one for a small fee.

[Corpus Skipper]

Holy smoke, you've got yourself a rocketship!

My 78 18' sidwinder, was supposed to max at 175, but had a '81 225 on it (200hp at the shaft) My insurance co just put it down as having a 175. My CVC is an I/O, and has 260+ in a 20 foot boat. Tunnels, and high performance boats are often running in excess of 275-300 HP in 18-20' hulls

The USCG ratings vary with a number of factors, including transom height, open or closed transom, length, etc...... all of which factor into a formula to get the correct hp.http://members.aol.com/spinners/hp.html Lots of good info here.

[DanFromDaHammer]

I've been meaning to get back here to post but haven't had the chance. Thanks for all the replies! My situation was that I bought the boat and the owner prior to the guy I bought it from had removed the plate for some reason and never reattached it. The guy I bought it off of in-turn lost the licence for it which caused even more problems. Fortunately he had the ownership for the trailer for heaven's sake!

I'll go into good detail for anyone else in the future that will search the forum for similar info. I think this only applies to Canadian boaters though.

In order to get the licence for the boat (which, by the way doesn't prove ownership at all as I found out) I had to fill out a declaration (http://www.tc.gc.ca/BoatingSafety/declaration.pdf), have it notorized (fortunately my friend's wife is a lawyer) and present it along with the bill of sale at a Transport Canada - Marine office (call 1-800-267-6687 for the office nearest you). This process is free of charge.

To get the compliance plate I needed to fill out 3 forms: a "Single Vessel Data Sheet"; a "Classification Code" sheet and a "Application for Single Vessel Label for Monohull Vessels Under 6 Metres (19 ft 8 in) in Length" sheet. Sheesh! On these sheets I needed to identify the Hull ID, Licence number, height, width, length, transom height, transom width, estimated dry weight, answer various other questions, take pictures at specified angles and send it all in to Transport Canada along with a $5.00 cheque. What a pain! By the way, the coast guard no longer takes care of this stuff .. it's now known as Canada Border Services. All of these forms and instructions can be found at http://www.tc.gc.ca/marinesafety/tp/.../appendix2.htm.

Border Services then sent me temporary papers to keep on board until my plate arrives. My insurance company wants me to call them when the plate arrives so they can let me know whether or not they'll cover me. I don't think they will as I think the boat came with a 135HP motor on it and the 175HP is probably more than the boat is rated for (although I've seen bigger motors on 16' Sidewinders). I'm thinking I may need to go to a company that insures boats exclusively or has a better understanding that 16' speed/ski boats are a bit different than runabouts and can handle motors bigger than 85HP.

Can anyone recommend such an insurance company? ... Mine is The Co-Operators and they seem to be sticklers when it comes to this stuff. Anyway, thanks for the advice and I hope the info I provided can help others who happen to be in the same predicament.

A word of advice ... when buying a boat, make sure the compliance plate is present and that the dude selling the boat has the licence paper to sign over to you. It'll save you a world of trouble (this is the first boat I've purchased - lesson learned).

Again, thanks for the replies. Later.

Dan

[Thunderhead19]

All that to get a replacement? You poor bastard! All that paperwork got filled out once already......oh wait, they changed all the rules for the capacity calculations two years ago last month. Gee, they must be applying the new rule to you....doesn't make sense. Bureaucrats suck. You're dealing with Border Services because you're american. We deal with Transport Canada office of boating safety directly ..(not Coast Guard as marshman was explaining...new plates say Transport Canada on them not Coast Guard)Ahh well, what to do what to do....

[DanFromDaHammer]

Actually, I am Canadian ... and I still had to do all of that hahaha. The kicker is that when I got home I found that my boat was too long to fit in my garage. I was fuguring that 1 16' boat would fit in a 21 foot garage even with thte trailer. I then had to cut the tongue off of the trailer and build a bracket/sleeve to reattach it every time I want to take it out. A never ending story ... hopefully I'll have enough fun with it this summer to make all of this hassel worth while. Otherwise I'll sell it at the end of the year and I'll be finished with boats. Oh well ... Later!

Dan

[Corpus Skipper]

Otherwise I'll sell it at the end of the year and I'll be finished with boats

Sounds like you got the hard part finished! The rest is all fun.

[Thunderhead19]

Originally Posted by Thunderhead19

All that to get a replacement? You poor bastard! All that paperwork got filled out once already......oh wait, they changed all the rules for the capacity calculations two years ago last month. Gee, they must be applying the new rule to you....doesn't make sense. Bureaucrats suck. You're dealing with Border Services because you're american. We deal with Transport Canada office of boating safety directly ..(not Coast Guard as marshman was explaining...new plates say Transport Canada on them not Coast Guard)Ahh well, what to do what to do....

Damned! got that backwards again....New plates say Coast guard.....

[Thunderhead19]

Originally Posted by Thunderhead19

Damned! got that backwards again....New plates say Coast guard.....

Okay!!!!! Canadian Coast Guard capacity and conformance plates issued prior to 2004 say Fisheries and Oceans - Coast Guard, and after that point they all say Transport Canada. Clear as mud now....yeah.....

[marshmat]

Don't tell me the damn TC/CG/BS/whatever has changed the whole mess again... LOL!
Someday all the different agencies will get their acts together and figure this out, and stop changing the rules on us!
(As an aside- after licencing my boat with CCRA, and getting the plate from CCG, in 2001, I then get an angry letter from the Ontario taxman, asking why I haven't paid sales tax and ownership change and so on- on a boat I built myself! Bureaucrats suck...)