Power cruising for...

[Polarity]

Moving swiftly on with our collective boat design (see http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...=&threadid=439 for details) - what should she be capable of?

I expect that each one of these options has it's own challenges in design, engineering,construction and material choice - and there is no shortage of ideas around here!

In response to the fast response to the last poll this one will run until Wed - 4 days from now (it's 2am Sunday morning here in the Med ... I should get out more!)

New members (and old of course) and guests don't hesitate to post your thoughts on the ideal yacht...

Cheers


Paul

[Polarity]

...a coastal cruiser..

- still needs to be able to handle the weather, tides etc, needs decent accomodation, reasonable range, must be manueverable, handsome, possibly shoal draft. - and.. after all... it still might need sails

Of course it also depends on which coast...

Cheers

Paul

[8knots]

Im voting for coastal crusing for a week! (a wider base of customers) 8Kts

[Tad]

Okay...okay

A week it is. But a week on Great Slave Lake is different than a week on the Cote D'Azur. Both will be different than a week on Chesapeake Bay or the Baltic Sea. And a week in the Red Sea or Amazon or Coral Sea would create a whole different set of requirements.

Will the next question be speed, or range, or climate, or operational sea-state? We could start thinking about crew size and experience, or budget, or..... Will she be owner built, or a production boat, or a high-end custom project?

There are some puzzles ahead!

Best to all, Tad.

[8knots]

great point Tad! The readers or paticipants in this are all over the world! Puzzles.... you bet. just adds to the fun. 8Kts

[tom28571]

Tad,

I agree with the direction you suggest. That we should make some objectives that the boat should satisfy before looking at any specific designs. One major one is whether the boat should be displacement, semi displacement or a planing hull.

Setting the objective of being suitable for a one week cruise is fine although that will mean different things to different people. At least it should set some range on comfort and facilities.

I suggest a limit of two crew for this one week cruise. As for the cruising area, I suggest that we settle on protected inshore and coastal areas in moderate conditions to make the boat satisfy the conditions most people are going to want to take a small powerboat in. Not ruling out a trip to someplace like the Bahamas, Tortugas or Channel Islands in carefully chosen conditions.

If we really intend to do a boat that most salaried people can do other than local gunkholing in, the boat needs to be trailerable. Getting to windward at 55mph has appealed to me greatly since we discovered it by necessity over 20 years ago. If it's not to be readily trailerable, then the size, crew limitations and crusing range aren't so rigid but we are limited to weekends and vacations running over the same local area all the time.

[duluthboats]

Adding trailerability to coastal hopping narrows it down some. This is what My list looks like as of now.
1 Coastal hopping
2 Trailerable
3 Range 300 miles
4 Crew, 2 minamum
5 Price range, under 50K US, for home built.
6 Must be able to carry on a normal conversation at 3/4 throttle.
I have more but this is enough to chew on for a while.

Gary

[Polarity]

It looks it's a landslide vote for a weeks cruising, and if I may, I would like to suggest that Tom and Garys list of 6 make a teriffic ....

Option 1 Trailerable, couple, home build $

If between us we can come up with 3 or more versions -6 points each, then we can put them out to vote...

Here's mine which is probably based more on interest than size of market!

Option 2 Tough, family+friends, pro build $$$

1.Capable of handling a wind against tide/current situation (say the Gulf stream at 2.5knts, against a solid f4) -which I seem to remember is medium nasty.
2. Not trailerable, lives at the marina for long season use (see 1.)
3. Range of 600 miles minimum - spending time at anchor rather than on the dock.
4. Sleep 4 in comfort, with space for a couple of kids in the bilges if needed.
5. Designed for Semi-custom production with a set number of options by a relatively small yard.
6. protected prop(s?) in case of umm.. "operator error".

Re: setting a price I would suggest that we can vote for a budget once the winner is decided (now that should be interesting!).

What do you all think?

Cheers
Paul

[tom28571]

Paul,

Why not do both? Maybe sequentially. It's difficult to predict how far we can go with a design (how much detail) anyway. My boat that I have posted on this forum satisfies every one of Gary's ideas. Maybe it could be used as a baseline to see what the rest of us might do to it. One advantage is that I know all the design in detail, both advantages and disadvantages from personal experience. I will not be upset if others want to change things. Just a suggestion of a possible direction for a start. After doing this for a first project, we might have a better idea of how much is possible in this format.

Either that or we will never speak to each other again.

Whatever course we take, I think we should elect you as the group leader and moderator of all issues since this was your idea. Do we need a vote on that too?

[tom28571]

I forgot to add that the cost of my boat was MUCH less than $50K. My itemized list comes to less than $6000 for the finished hull W/O engine and trailer. Some materials were gotten at discounts but in no way could cost have approached $50K. Materials are mostly first class or near equivalent. Plywood was biggest item. Epoxy was next and paint (Awlgrip) next. The engine cost me more than the boat. Are those US dollars?

Hey, if there is enough interest in this kind of effort. several projects could be done. Stephen could lead his if the rest of us could keep up.

I second Paul as moderator. There thats done before he even has a chance to say no.

Tom, you say you have such a boat posted? What thread would I find it in? What can I say. You got my attention.

Gary

[Jeff]

Tom's is a really nice boat and a very well done project: http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...=1233#post1233 and http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...=1250#post1250 (and an interesting thread from start to finish).

[Willallison]

Time I entered the fray!
I must say I like Pauls set of guidelines. A boat that is capable of reasonably extended cruising, without the need to stop every day or two at the dock is a far more interesting design challenge. One of the most important considerations that has (possibly) slipped through the cracks so far is that of operating speeds. To my mind, the boat should be capable of cruising in the mid twenties when conditions suit. This isn't always the case, so it should also be practical and economical to use at displacement speeds.

[8knots]

Hello all;
I third the motion for Paul as moderator (the father of the project) Tom I really like your boat and the drawing that go with her! Excellent work!!! I am glad to see you in on the project; your expertise will help us all. (Thanks to Jeff for posting the links) I agree that the boat should be of a little larger size. And a semi-production model in cored fiberglass the plans could be modified for one-off construction (home builder) after the project was done if the interest were there. In my mind I see a Consolidated Commuter style boat maybe 36’-42’ round bilge, semi-disp capable of say 20 Kts max.cruise at 14-16 Twin screws of course Gas or Diesel? My gut tells me that the average client for this style of boat would put the throttles in the oil pan if things get nasty. More than likely he will have children aboard and “boat skeptical wives” I would imagine rolling around in big rollers has equaled a lot of for sale signs. So a small sacrifice in sea keeping for speed would mean a more marketable boat. This is just me thinking out loud here so chime in if you think I am all washed up. 8Kts

[duluthboats]

Well Paul, I think it's time we considered budget, or target sale price. The drive on 8knots' pictured boat would equal 5 or 6 of Tom's (Liz) complete boat. Most boats that I noodle with have a target market of myself.

Tom I don't no why I didn't think of Liz. I think I have read most everything that is in print about her. She would be a good place to start. It would be a little like having a group prodding a loved one. Do you have a thick skin. With 8knots' budget we could gold plate the works.
Gary