Power choice Poll

SVO conversions for diesel engines

Not sure what this is but I know lots of folks are going with bio diesel so the engine starts and stops on regular diesel fuel but runs on vegie oil. most folks are using the grease from restaurant french fry makers. so yes the think smells like french fries when running .......... might make for a great fish catching machine. there is stuff all over the internet on bio diesels. good luck.

 

Yeah, Bio Diesel works just like regular diesel. You put it in our tank and cracnk the engine. The recycled oil and Veggie oil is different - you need to start off with regular diesel or bio diesel and then switch to veggie and back again about a minute befire shutting down the engine.
Tried, tested and proven methods.
so here's the general idea....we'll call it "Option 1 million" (just kidding!)
- 40' Trimaran
- Cedar strip with west system
- 3 water jets powered
- 2 Kawa JS550 jets(one in each ama) powered by DC motors (power from small
veggie oil generator)
- 1 jet drive in main hull, powered by a 150HP diesel (not sure of make)
- Steering via main nozzle manipulation
- 1 main berth (for me and wife), 2 smaller berths (kids, guests
- All cooking and dining will be on deck with convertable top
- comfy lounge/family area down below - when things get rough outside
- Batteries to power DC motors - each AMA will have enough batts stored to
power the motor in said ama.
- Wind/solar panels to charge batts and run small appliances (on slow cruise
days, you run off the batts/wind/sun instead of fuel.
- No autosteer and other fancy things.Small commercial radar set and GPS
- Decent radio set with a backup.

Sound good?

 

sounds so good

let me know when she's done, will meet you at the dock for the launch!!!!!!
Will bring a couple hundred gallons ........ make that a truck bed full of veggie fat ...... can cut it into bricks and load it up for balast until the need for speed arises.

"Dream Of Me Boat"

I've been dreamin',
Of a randy, dandy clipper with her tops'ls set,
Pitchin' heavy down the westin' with the leeches wet.
Billy Newland, the old skipper, from his high bridge head,
Shoutin' to us packet rats -- an' these the words he said:
"Hop along, now! Loose them 'gallants! Skip aloft, now! Jump along!"

Oh, them packet rats were swearin' an' a-breakin' into song!
Packet rats a-roarin', "Ranzo," rats a-singin', "Roll an' Go,"
Haulin' on them 'gallant braces, cryin', "Blow, boys blow!"

Let her blow for Frisco city!
Let the dandy clipper race!
For them swingin' feet and pretty
Of the gals at Tony's place.

Soon we'll see old Tony smilin',
Hear his gals begin to sing,
Hear old Billy Dick beguilin'
Music from a fiddle-string!

 Oh, there's drowned an' perished clippers
An' there's rats that died --
But there's gals wi' flowered slippers
An' their skirts flung wide!

Did you say there ain't no clippers? Did you say them days is done?
Days of packet rats an' packets, an' stars an' moon an' sun?
O' lights upon the water, a-shinin' on the sea?
My God, but I'm a packet rat!
What will become of me?

I've got to see tall clippers, I've got to sing an' shout
When the 'gallants are mastheaded and the jibs are runnin' out.
I've got to roar of "Ranzo," an' "Blow, my bullies, blow!"
When the ice-cakes heap a-cracklin', an' the Horn is lost in snow.
I wants them lights by Frisco, an' lights by Salem too,
And dandy skippers swearin' at the signin' of the crew.
Red Jacket's gone? And Dancin' Wave? Guidin' Star as well?
Then what of Golden Era?... God help me! This is hell!

Good-by, farewell, kedge anchor! The shoals lie deep about;
The packet rats are singin', an' their chorus dyin' out.
The clippers lie a-westin' where the westin' sun burns red,
An' the packet rats are restin' in the havens of the dead.

Good-by to Dame Romancing an' her dainty feathered frock!
Good-by to all the laughter at the swingin' of the lock!
Good-by to capstan payments, good-by to ships at sea--
If the packets rest a-westin'--ah--westin's right for me!

 

Bravo!

 

Wet-Foot,

Thanks for the motivation! I loved the art work. Should have it framed and placed above the workshop door!
Now I only need 'n large enough workshop - or the back yard! Ha Ha

On a side note. A friend asked me why I wouldn't attempt this out of Ferro cement (I've built with ferro cement before, but not a boat (it was a land based structure). any reason why ferro cement wouldn't work? Maybe a bit slower and less effecient?

 

Ferro Cement boats can be mighty dangerous!!!!!!!!

2 Things to watch out 4;

1. Pholus Dactylus; Will bore holes in your boat ........

A relatively minor drawbacks of ferro-cement is that it has been known to be vulnerable to attack by an intriguing boring bivalve mollusc called the common piddock or, to give it its scientific name, pholus dactylus. The animal is approximately elliptical in outline with a beaked anterior end. It is up to 12 cm long and bores into sandstone and other soft rocks. The shell is dull white or grey in colour and is surprisingly fragile considering it is used to perform the boring process. It has a sculpture of concentric ridges and radiating lines The siphons are joined and can be up to twice the length of the shell and are white to light ivory in colour. The periostracum is usually yellowish but is often discoloured. Pholas dactylus also has phosphorescent properties, the outlines of the animal glowing with a green blue light in the dark. In suitable substrates it is often found at considerable densities and is widespread throughout the world, especially SW Britain and Ireland. It can do serious damage to a ferro-cement hull even though it contains lime and other chemicals which are inimical to the animal's life.

2. Much more serious is the possibility of a lightning strike.

Any boat at sea in an electric storm is vulnerable to a strike by lightning. In most types of vessel this, although very dangerous, usually results only in the loss of all electronic equipment. In a ferro-cement boat it can be catastrophic particularly is the vessel is fitted with a metal mast or railings. The lightning travels down the mast and/or the steel wire standing rigging and through the chain plates or other hull connections to the armature. From there it cannot escape causing the armature to have a very rapid rise in temperature. The resulting shock and expansion of the steel can 'blow off' the cement cover causing the vessel to sink like a stone. At least one case is known where this has happened to a ferro-cement boat of a slipway in Australia where the armature was left standing on the cradle surrounded by heaps of broken cement on the slipway. One is left speechless at what might have happened had this occurred at sea. Because of this possibility ferro-cement boats must be fitted with proper lightning conductors and earthing plates (grounding plates if you are an American). These earthing plates should be long and narrow and securely bolted to the hull and properly electrically connected to the chain plates and the armature. The surface area of the plate need not exceed about one square foot but the plate should be arranged to give the maximum possible edge length. Side strikes from the lightning can also cause devastation particularly to electronic equipment.

For the sake of humanity - stick to wood and epoxy

 

hehehe you conviced me....wood and epoxy it is!
I don't want monster molluscs and exploding boats under my boots, thank you very much!
I'll relay this info to the gent that suggested I go with ferrocement...should be a nice wake up call!

Should start this project within a month or two of me returning from south africa... The key would be to keep the boat light weight and strong enough to allow the water jets to propel it to decent speeds. Somehow, I think that I am going to need more than just 2 jetski jets...

 

Jet Power

I think you could do OK with a couple 155hp Yamaha jetdrives. Might have to get into kevlar carbonfiber to get the weight way down .......... of course with epoxy resin with cedar as the base material. This project could probably be done in 3 months, ya think?

 

Hmmmm, I'm thinking 2 of the mentioned yamaha jet drives in the main hull and 1 Kawa 550 jet drive in each of the ama's. I would really like to avoid the kevlar/carbon route. It is really expensive and a pain to work with. The cedar/resin option looks like the one. I would rather invest a bit more in power units and have some redundency than invest a million in exotic hulls and be SOL when the engine breaks down.
While I've dablled in the laying of glass, kevlar and carbon as well as some other techniques, I have not been too involved with wood. Any kind of basic guidelines, so that I know where to start researching before I take the plunge?

 

wood epoxy

Do a search for cedar strip canoes .......... these folks can provide all kinds of helpful info. Sure they can give you some ideas on what to look for as far as the cedar goes. There are tons of great epoxy suppliers out there but my preference is west systems. They can provide you with building techniques, construction ideas and stress ratings for their epoxy. One thing you could consider is to leave the exterior in natural wood with the clear epoxy as a top coat. I know there's no UV protection but the yellowing of the epoxy actually enhances the wood grain. I've done cedar canoes this way. They always recommend a spar varnish on top for protection but the stuff always peels after a year or 2 and the whole thing has to be refinished. I only did the varnish stripping once, that was it for me ....... Now it's straight epoxy!!!!! Any blemishes or cracks in the wood I fill in with epoxy paste tinted black with regular resin colour agent. For me, black filler looks a hundred times better than trying to match the natural wood colour. After brushing on a top top give it a light sanding then trowel a really thin coat on to smooth it out. repeat the light sanding troweling 2 or 3 times and you'll end up with a beautiful high gloss finish after polishing it out. Navy blue or marine green would look great for colour accents.

 

Funny enough, that is what I was thinking of doing. I've been reading on Cedar strip construction. It looks like it is not that difficult to do-except the method by which you connect the cedar strips to the basic fram seems to be a little, well....personal preference. I think I may have to start off building a scale model - and test it out a bit. I'm a strong beleiver in the build&test method - like Burt Rutan of scaled composites.
Just reading the different posts on this forum has helped me qiute a bit so far.

Now for the kicker. The final goal is to be able to power all the way down to southern Africa (after extensive cruising around our own coast of course. Only a fool would take on such a trip with no prior experience). With the boat being a 40 to 50 footer, would this seem crazy? I've been looking at the AdvanceDC motors for the jets in the AMA's and they may need some form of protection from corrosion and heat, but should otherwise be fine. The easiest comparison in terms of power, is about 100HP for each of them. Max RPM's are in the 3000 range. This should be plenty for a Jet drive from a kawa JS550. The main engines are a concern as well, since I would really prefer to stick to diesel, but don't want a 5000 lb monster in my hull. The cost is an issue as wel. I've heard nightmares about the VW automotive conversions, so that is not an option. A yanmar JH series maybe?

 

swome times you have to be a little crazy

Experience, the more you learn the further you go!!!!!!!! Tons of people do ocean crossing with little time logged aboard. Know your boat - know the weather - know your ability - notify next of kin .......... and away ya go!!!!!!
Always nice when you sail into port 5 years later and swee that surprised look on all the faces of those that stood to inherite .... A@ SH~@

I would go all gas or all diesel .......... figure out the cost difference for setup and fuel cost for the life of the boat and pick a or b. I bet you'd have to log a million miles to beat out the affordable gas jetdrives. If low fuel consumption becomes a big deal I'd add a sail before all this other stuff. A big cat sail boat with jetdrives would be one nifty machine. Now you can go global and get into real skinny water too!!!!! Lots of guys out there to help pull this one off.

 

Thanks for the support, WetFoot. My wife thinks I've lost my marbles!
I would go with Diesel, since gas prces in the ports that I would lkike to visit are a bit on the rough side. Another reason I prefer diesel is because I'm familiar with the process of making biodiesel and wouldn't hesitate to run the engines on veggie oil from the local McD's (of course only after being filtered and de-watered).
This is going to be a huge experiment for me. The design will be very simple and because it is a trimaran, I don't have to focus quite as much on issues such as ballast and such. I think it will be a real thrill to see how much speed I can wind out of it without making too much noise (a lot of time will go into extensive exhaust tuning). The sails are a good idea, but I am a bit inexperienced at sailing. I have lots of time on power boats though. I lived in Cape Town for some time and got to do the whole rough seas deal more than a dozen times (mostly not out of my own free will! )

 

Bio - diesel sounds good

If you are going to do the bio diesel deal then some of your original ideas are probably the way to go. How about one big diesel gen-set in the main hull powering 3 electric motors hooked to waterjets. All of this would be rather straight forward with a little fab work to hook the electric motors to the jets . Bet it would be really easy to regulate the speed. A big diesel in good shape converts to bio real welltoo!!!!!!! could have a second small diesel gen-set for back-up. Going with a marine quality gen-set would solve your noise issue ........ This craft would be ultra quiet. Let me know how the planning is going.

 

That is another option. It is easier to run an electrical motor since no transmission is needed. Absolutely flat torque curve. These motors are being used in electric car conversions all day long, so I can't see it being much of a stretch to use them to power a water jet.
The main Genset idea sounds good. There are "relatively" cheap gensets available. If I go used (which is ok with diesel, cause they last forever), I could further cut costs and just keep a small commercial generator as backup.
The only problem I foresee is that the motors may end up overheating because of extensive use. That is one reason why I wanted to keep one of the jets powered by the diesel engine itself.
The final goal is a boat that can power me down to South Africa at minimum fuel costs without having to resort to sails.
For electric motors, see:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/advdc.html

Please keep in mind that an electric motor's HP rating is vastly different form that of a conventional engine. The 8 inch motor may only be listed as 55 HP, but it puts out the same power and torque accross the range - and is thuss more versatile than a ICE engine.