Power choice Poll

[Portager]

Good job Will!

I still disagree with the decision to use an outboard. If O-1 didn't have a shower I'd feel different, but that propane water heater is going to be PAIN! O well. Time to move on!

I think the "C-Dory 22' Cruiser" http://www.c-dory.com/C-Dory%2022.htm model is the closest production boat to O-1 I know of. If you look at the pricing page http://www.c-dory.com/22%20pricing.htm we will see they price the C-Dory very competitively. This price does not include Motor(s), Battery(s), & Trailer, shipping and any applicable taxes.

One thing about the C-Dory that always bothered me was they use outboard engines (gasoline) and a diesel stove/heater. I understand a diesel stove/heater on a diesel boat but why on a gasoline boat?

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Willallison]

I think the hot water / shower thing might come down to personal choice. Tom, for instance, I would think would happily forego the hw system in favour of avoiding the weight and complexity that comes with it, and so would leave it out. I admire that single-minded persuit of lightweight and simplicity - me, I'd sacrifice a little of both in order to have hot water on board.

As far as the C-Dory goes, they seem to capture the general idea - but to my eye at least - by God they're ugly!
It's interesting to look at the performance figures, though. I'm surprised that they manage better fuel economy with a pair of 40's than with a single 75......

[Portager]

If I couldn't afford a boat with a shower I might make due with a "Sun Shower", but for $50K I expect a HOT shower.

Maybe that is our answer? Maybe we could design a hot water solar collector into the roof?

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder! The factory built C-Dory meets most of the performance requirements we set for O-1 at a fraction of the cost. They also have amazing resale value. Looks pretty good to ME. The performance of the C-Dory is very close to the goals of O-1.

The fuel economy of the twin 40 HP versus the 75 HP is a mystery.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[duluthboats]

This is a few things that crossed my mind over the weekend, mostly related to O-1.

A 4 day weekend for me and I still have no vision. I should say more correctly that I can’t narrow it down to just one. Using Blue Jacket as a starting point is an excellent idea.

The other day at Tad’s suggestion I picked up a copy of PassageMaker. I seldom look at it because they deal with larger boats then I’m interested in. I was surprised to see in the Trawler Talk section, the head line, Readers Prefer Propane Galleys. They also had an article on Twin vs Single with a bow thruster. I might have to read this magazine more often.

Where I boat, cabin heat is more important than hot water, but I would like both on any boat that I would spend a week on. I spent the first 5 years of my life in a house where the hot water came from a kettle on the stove. So we can get heat and hot water even from a solid fuel stove. LP is I believe a much easier fuel to transport and to use than many of the alternatives. I know about the safety concerns, I pulled a camper trailer around for many years. It used LP for everything, refrigeration, lights, heat, cooking, and hot water. This baby had gas lines everywhere. 3or 4 times a year it would take me about an hour to leak check the entire system. Occasionally a leak was found and repairs made. Not to much hassle for the convenience of not plugging in. I want that same convenience on my boat.

I do like the C-Dory, I just hate when a glass boat tries to look like a wood one.

Tad, I will get to your article in another thread, it deserves the space.

Gary

[Portager]

Propane is not something to take lightly on a boat, mainly because it is heavier than air.

Here is a quote from http://www.boatus.com/boattech/propane.htm
"Liquefied petroleum gas-usually propane-is the most convenient cooking fuel for a boat. It is available almost everywhere. It requires no pumping or preheating-just turn the knob and light the burner. The heat is adjustable by lowering the flame. Ovens have a "ring" burner, and can even be equipped with a broiler. And a gas stove, as every chef knows-is a joy to cook on.

On a boat, LPG is also-by far-the most dangerous cooking fuel. Propane and butane are heavier than air, so they "spill" like water. Leaking propane in a house falls to the floor, usually dispersing harmlessly on air currents, but a boat is like a bowl, and leaking gas accumulates in the bottom of it. One spark and KABOOM!-bits of boat rain down like a ticker-tape parade."

The propane leaks in your travel trailer were a minor nuisance because it wasted gas, but the gas leaked away harmlessly. In a boat it is a much bigger problem because it collects dangerously.

Propane is the most popular cooking fuel, but it requires a properly designed and vented locker. It also requires propane sniffers and solenoid shut-off valves. It can be done safely, but don't cut corners. Another question is what about product liability. If we design O-1 and one blows up due to a design flaw. Who gets sued.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Willallison]

Mike is right about the dangers involved in using propane / lpg on a boat - more so one with petrol engines - hence my search (in vain so far) for a suitable alternative.
The only other feasible option I have managed to come up with is to install a relatively small, petrol-engined generator and use an immersion style water heater. I've not done the sums yet, but I suspect that by the time you take into account the weight of gas cylinder(s) etc, it wouldn't result in too huge a weight penalty. It would however allow a whole host of other possibilities - including hot air (no smart remarks necessary, thankyou ). It may prove to be unsuitable, but its worth considering.

p.s. Gary, Passagemaker is one of the few mags that I still buy - their articles are excellent - informative and not simply longer advertisements. I can't afford any of them either, but hey - who says a guy can't dream?

[Portager]

The engineering department's plan was to put a "Zena" 200 amp alternator on the engine http://www.zena.net/htdocs/alternato..._alt.shtml#Top with a 4:1 pulley ratio. This would provide 60 amps at idle and 200 amps at cruise. They would add an A/C compressor for air-conditioning. The heat from the water jacket would provide hot water for showers and space heating. Gary could add an exhaust heat exchanger to augment space heating.

We have decided to make installation simpler and to reduce cost and weight by using an outboard. So we also need a generator to run the water heater, space heaters, A/C and a battery charger. Maybe this is why Cruisers use inboards? I am starting to see why the C-Dory uses a diesel stove/heater on a gas boat. I wonder how the C-Dory's recharge their battery bank?

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Willallison]

I'm not suggesting that the installation of a generator is the best solution - indeed I seem to recall saying in one of my earlier posts that "all systems should be 12 volt. Generators have no place on a boat the size of O-1, where lightweight and simplicity are paramount". It is merely an option worth investigating....
I can see why C-Dory would include the diesel cooker etc as an option for their boats. It would probably appeal to the type of person who would consider such a vessel. And whilst having two different fuel supplies aboard does seem a little strange, I guess it's no different to having petrol and LPG......

[ErikG]

Well this is my first shot at the stove n heater issue so dont kick me to hard

Here in scandinavia the preferred stoves are either LPG or Alcohol with diesel on a distant third. LPG is by far the most used, a well installed LPG system works fine but personally I don't like it that much.
Alcohol as on the Origo stoves is a nice alternative currently only used for stoves and mostly onboard smaller boats.

I'm thinking about an idea to use an "Origo like" heater for water heating, that could be used for either hotwater as such or cabin heat.
So far I have yet to find anyone that uses alcohol heaters for this purpose. There might be a perfectly good answer to why, but it ought to work...

Smelly alcohol stoves is a thing of the past, a modern fuel container with modern fuel does not give any smell at all. Not in my boat at least

But alcohol is a lot more expensive than LPG or diesel but is quite usable in limited quantites. It might not be the best for heating up a cabin during longer periods.

Any comments?

[Willallison]

I use alcohol (methylated spirits actually) for both my cooking and heating. It is good for both. I don't think it would be suitable for hot water however, as it can't produce anything like the amount of energy (heat) as things like LPG
Incidentally, I've given this topic its own thread given the interest it has sparked ('scuse the pun...)

[Portager]

Please see reply at http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...=3508#post3508 for response to Heaters and Cookers.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Nomad]

Do I have to Mike or is it a suggestion?

need someone to build me a custoom houseboat

[Dim]

Look gallery EmilSB and contact to him. You can find him e-mail at this forum.

Dim

[wet-foot]

Great for water sports. lots of lowend torque and very safe too!!!!!