Power choice Poll

[Portager]

[Nomad]

I never thought about it, doesn't sound like a bad idea. With one execption I didn't think about it first!

[Willallison]

One thing we are most certainly all in agreement with (by the sound of it...) is that design by committee has its shortcomings, compromises - and a few plusses as well. We are all learning new and interesting stuff here, which can only be a good thing.
I think Mike and Tom have made a very good point - perhaps we need to have made some firmer decisions on exactly what type of boat we want to end up with: a bare-bones ultralight which makes do without most of the luxury items, or a more upmarket version, which favours the inclusion of the luxuries at the probable expense of lightweight and cost.
(Personally I believe that outboard propulsion can be suitable for both applications, but lets leave that out of it for now)

I suggest that we set aside this debate - for the 2nd time! and run a short poll to decide the overall direction of O-1. Either that or go with the re-vote on this issue.

[Nomad]

Are you people from Florida to??

[Portager]

I hate to say it but I think we need a vision statement.

i.e.

Economical Classic Cruiser - designed to provide the accommodations and convince of an Express Cruiser but with less speed, an affordable price and classic looks.

For Classic Express Cruiser - designed to beat the pants off "Bleach Bottle Express Cruisers" and look good doing it! AKA Damn the price full speed ahead!

Once we all have a better understanding of the objective we will be better able to make decisions that allow us to reach that objective. At least that is the theory.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Nomad]

Another good idea Mike!

[Willallison]

Yep - I think we may have found a way forward - though I favour a bare-bones ultralight vs an all-out luxury express poll. That way we can leave styling out of it for now - we have enough trouble agreeing without bringing that one into it!

[Portager]

OK, so what is unique about O-1?

I suggest that everyone submit their vision. I suggest a format that starts with it is similar to a ___________ ____________ except it...

I'll go first. O-1 is similar to a trailerable express cruiser expect it's lighter weight and lower speed make it more economical to build and operate i.e. an "Economy Cruiser". O-1 will be legally trailerable, without special permits in the USA, Canada, Mexico and TBD.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[duluthboats]

Mike I’ll go along with your Vision Statement, as long as we don’t make a Paradigm Shift. LOL!!!!! Sorry I couldn't help myself. I'll work on something. This should move us forward I hope.
Gary

[Willallison]

I rather like Mike's Vision Statement too - which is somewhat of a concern given our oposing views on power systems!
Actually, if we were to go the luxury route as opposed to the ultra-light route, I could always reconsider my position.....

Anyway, not to be outdone, here's my attempt:

"O-1 is UNLIKE any other express cruiser on the market. She (Loyds may have dropped the title, but buggered if I'm going to! ) is a lightweight, comfortable mini-cruiser: home buildable and legally trailerable world-wide - by design, O-1 will be economical to build, own and operate."

Not as neat as Mike's wondrous effort, but it still makes me feel all warm and fuzzy!!

[Polarity]

Definately warm and fuzzy feelings with that one - bkind of a marketing vision statement - I like it a lot.
Well put Will ! and great idea Mike!

Paul

[tom28571]

For the new people on this forum, my boat which was designed and built to satisfy pretty much the same ideas that we have for the "low end" O-1 can be seen, along with full specs, at:

http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthr...thouse+cruiser

I offer this as a starting point which can be used as a dart board for people to throw slings and arrows at. What would have to be changed to suit our individual members and can all the different modifications be fitted in one boat.

If we are talking about a low end, home built,we have to be disciplined not to talk blue sky so that the project goes nowhere and everywhere. That is true no matter what direction we start out with. I don't care what direction we take but it must be a single path or we will never get anywhere. Notwithstanding that we are learning a lot about boats and systems even with the scattergun approach that we have been on.

[Portager]

Originally posted by Willallison
"O-1 is UNLIKE any other express cruiser on the market. She is a lightweight, comfortable mini-cruiser: home buildable and legally trailerable world-wide - by design, O-1 will be economical to build, own and operate."

Since >99% of existing Express Cruisers use stern drives/inboards and the tie breaker pool selected outboard, it seams O-1 is bucking a trend. I was looking for the explanation of the benefit of the outboard to the consumer.

So far all I can think of is; we selected an outboard because:
It appears cheaper.
Its more economical unless you use it.
The designers took the easy way out.
It is almost as safe as a diesel.
Who needs resale value, you'll never want to sell it.
It is easier to unbolt the 400 lb outboard and take it in for service than to hitch up the trailer and tow the whole boat.
Who needs reliability, you can buy two outboard$ and keep one in the garage as a spare.
Cold showers build character.

This is tongue in cheek, but my point is, if your going to decide to buck a trend you need to have a really good reason for doing it.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Nomad]

Mike it's.......it's touching!

[Willallison]

LOL!
Unfortunately, I think we sent ourselevs a little off track by describing O-1 as an "Express Cruiser". In market speak, that pretty much means a somewhat fat, squeeze more in, sterndrive powered styling exercise.
Go back to the original five or six design parameters that we settled on for our boat:


1 Coastal hopping
2 Trailerable
3 Range 300 miles
4 Crew, 2 minimum
5 Price range, under 50K US, for home built.
6 Must be able to carry on a normal conversation at 3/4 throttle.

we then chose a size range:

Size 29 - 32 feet.

.... and then speed:

1. Max speed 25 - 28 knots
2.Max Cruise 20 - 22
3. able to maintain planing down to 12 knots and economical to operate throughout its speed range

Later we could give consideration to the GTi Expre$$ version.

From these parameters, it is clear that whilst many of the so-called "express cruisers" currently available will fit some of them - few will fit all. My 27ft Searay Sundancer, for instance (surely one of the most successful mass produced express cruisers) won't even look at travelling 300miles on a single tankful of fuel. And whilst with leg trimmed in and tabs fully depressed, I can just remain on the plane at 12 knots, I use more fuel than a 747 in the process!

O-1 is an attempt at something new, something that does buck the trends - because currently all the trends are for bigger, fatter, heavier and less efficient boats. If we are to move forward, we must continually look back to our chosen parameters for guidance. Sure - an all-out luxury floating condo would probably be better served by an inboard of some description, but the same boat won't fit the chosen criteria, listed above.

Tom, I think the idea of using "Liz" as a starting point is an excellent one - especially since it was partly a discussion about her that started this whole thing off........