Ok, Now What...?

[Willallison]

and another:

[Willallison]

now I'm having fun!

[Willallison]

and last but not least:

[Portager]

Will;

Not bad, but:

Although there are obvious rear visibility benefits of putting the head forward and below the penalty is that everything aft must be raised for visibility. I am concerned about stability and the A/B ratio of such a light weight craft. You have a height to beam ratio of 1.2. This would be easier to accommodate if the engine CG were lower, but the outboard aggravates the CG problem. However, the soft top helps somewhat. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

For comparison, my height to beam ratio is 0.93, although I think it will be higher in rev 4.

It looks like you have a tunnel berth on the port side (its hard to read). How does this work with the forward facing seat above? Where do you put your legs & feet?

It looks like your LWL should be 8 m and LOA is 9 m. You could increase length to 9.75 m which would make more room in the cockpit.

Originally posted by Willallison
How do you prevent water from entering the main cabin from the cockpit? If there is a step down to inside, then the height of the rear door is already restricted, so lifting the bottom of the door up will only compound the problem......

You have a good point. Look for rev 4 to correct this design flaw later tonight.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Nomad]

Please keep your hands and feet inside the ride and prepare for the darts...................Wel I only really have one that I did not see covered. Why cant the beam be 8'6''?? Every inch adds up!
I think I'll have to sit on the sideline with Trouty for a while unless you guys need to call in the second string................

[Willallison]

Why cant the beam be 8'6''?? Every inch adds up!

O-1 is a "world boat". Max beam in Oz (and a number of other countries who have converted to the modern world - oops! I mean metric system ) is 2.5m or 8'2 1/2".

You have a height to beam ratio of 1.2. This would be easier to accommodate if the engine CG were lower, but the outboard aggravates the CG problem. However, the soft top helps somewhat. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

My searay has the floor raised to the point where you can comfortably fit the engine (and an arthwartships double berth) under the cockpit floor. I've not found it to be unduly top heavy. The floor in O-1 would be lower than in my boat, so I don't think it would be a problem and this should also compensate for the higher CG of the outboard.

It looks like you have a tunnel berth on the port side (its hard to read). How does this work with the forward facing seat above? Where do you put your legs & feet?

I designed this berth for very short people!!
Actually, I have a step up to the companion seat. This should provide plenty of height for legs, as the berth would be located quite low down

It looks like your LWL should be 8 m and LOA is 9 m. You could increase length to 9.75 m which would make more room in the cockpit.

All the specs are taken from my CAD model. The sketch is just that - not terribly accurate. I agree, it might be nice to add another 0.5 to 1m to the length in order to increase the amount of room available in the cockpit.

[duluthboats]

Will, Yours works for me. EXCEPT! Can we change that shear line, just reverse it, make it concave.

Mike, I really like yours. EXCEPT! Thats a lot of boat can we make it go.

Gary

[Willallison]

Gary - I'll have a play with the sheerline, but I think the reverse sheer works best here. A more 'traditional' sheer would result in the cabin sides appearing higher - the reverse sheer and the ....the...... what do you call that thing...the sort of chine thing 1/2 way down the hull sides, where there is an abrupt change in angle.....(is it a knuckle?) anyway that thing and the reverse sheer help to disguise the height.

[Willallison]

Mike,
A thought about your cabin entry. You could incorporate a hatch in the cabin roof, similar to the layout used on many snail boats (oops - that must surelly be a typo
But don't be thinking I'm pulling out one dart, without replacing it with another!
I haven't yet come up with a successful means of enclosing part or all of your cockpit. Even if just with a canvas roof extension, it's nice to have a bit of shelter in the cockpit. Side and/or aft curtains can then be added for those who want them.

[Willallison]

Gary, Tell a lie - did a quick sketch and the boat looks quite good with a 'concave' sheer. It gives the boat a more 'traditional' appearance - but I know you old guys like that!

Mike, how about this for a means of allowing a cockpit overhang.
A radar arch of sorts would allow the installation of a small screen so a cockpit helmsman could see over the cabin roof in all conditions. It would also support a canvas roof for part or all of the cockpit.

[Portager]

I figured the fix for the fuel tank location and the door height was to raise the roof of the pilothouse or at least part of it.

To keep the CG down I decided to move the head and galley forward. This allows them to be wider since they don't have to be within the side decks.

I copied Will's flip back helm seat and added a second booth. I also copies Will's wet locker behind the seat backrest.

I like the new arrangement, but I'm not happy with the looks yet.

Originally posted by duluthboats
Mike, I really like yours. EXCEPT! Thats a lot of boat can we make it go.

It's the same beam as Wills and only about 2 feet longer. It shouldn't be much heavier. Of course I do need to add an engine. I plan an arrangement like Will's but I just can't bring myself to draw an outboard. eek:

Cheers;
Mike Schooley:

[Willallison]

I like the new arrangement, but I'm not happy with the looks yet.

Argh! Sorry Mike - but that's damned UGLY!!

I prefer the galley upstairs - more ventilation, better view, closer to both dinette and cockpit, free's up space downstairs for storage.

It's the same beam as Wills and only about 2 feet longer. It shouldn't be much heavier. Of course I do need to add an engine. I plan an arrangement like Will's but I just can't bring myself to draw an outboard. eek:

I wouldn't have thought that your 1st one would be any heavier than mine - apart from the length. If anything it would be lighter as it isn't as tall....

[Portager]

Originally posted by Willallison

Argh! Sorry Mike - but that's damned UGLY!!

You hurt my feelings.

I was soooo insulted I stayed up all night redesigning, NOT. Well I did have an idea for improving the looks. Check this out. I reversed the galley/head and the pilothouse. I had to add a "dog house" to allow a full height door. I have shown stairs instead of ladders because the admirable and my dogs prefer stairs, but this is a builder preference. There is room under the pilothouse for large fuel and water tanks close to the lateral CG and a small fuel tank can be provided under the cockpit (if necessary) to correct trim.

I also increased the height of the forward deck. It improves the looks and provides 5' of freeboard.

I prefer the galley upstairs - more ventilation, better view, closer to both dinette and cockpit, free's up space downstairs for storage.

With the galley aft, I can accommodate large window to provide plenty of light and the distance from the galley to the dinette is only two steps up.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Portager]

Here is my latest version. LOA is 32', beam 8' 2", height overall is 10', freeboard is 5', headroom in the galley, head and pilothouse is 6' 4". Head room in the forward cabin is 5' 4".

I raised the pilothouse seats so that you can see out the window. The forward seats on both sides would have reversible backrests to face forward during transit and face aft to form booths with seating for 4. The booths will convert to bunks so it will sleep up to 4.

I lowered the galley and head area to reduce the CG and to provide better visibility from the pilothouse.

Wet lockers are provided at the forward end of the cockpit on either side of the door.

Access to the bow would be through the hatch in the foredeck or over the roof of the galley/head and down around the pilothouse. A ladder would lead from the cockpit to the room of the gallery/head. The side decks beside the pilothouse are 10" at the rear and taper to 6" at the front of the pilothouse.

So tell me what you think. I can take it.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Willallison]

Well, Mike I would have to say that your 'raised pilothouse mini-express trawler' is a breath of fresh air. Something different - inspirational even!
Alas, I still have a few darts in my box so.......
I'm concerned that at 9.75m (32ft) we may be getting a little on the large side to meet all our weight / performance guidelines. LWL for your boat looks like being about 30ft. And of course (even though you can't bring yourself to draw it!) that there will also be an outboard sticking out back (and probably a boarding platform) so the LOA will be closer to 10.5m. We could always lop 1/2 to 3/4 of a metre off the cockpit, I suppose....

Then there is the relationship between the living area(s) and the cockpit. Head and galley access will of course be excellent (no trapsing through the boat with wet, sandy feet to grab a drink or take a pee...), but conversation and sightlines between those in the cockpit and those sitting inside will be difficult. The trick with a small boat is to make it feel big - that means open plan wherever possible. By compartmentalising the boat as you have this is hard to achieve. Also with everything at such widely different levels, moving about may prove to be cimbersome.

Lastly there is the height - at just over 3m it may prove to be a problem for our CG.

But like I said to start with - you've certainly been thinking outside the box.

Now, I've just spent 3 lovely days away on my boat - cool at around 14C during the day and 6C at night - but calm, sunny and generally rather pleasant! Inspirational conditions of ever there were some - so here is my latest bid. An "Extended Cab" cruiser.

Starting at the front. We have a conventional v-berth, but with a short ladder to the (sunken) foredeck providing excellent access up to the bow. The ladder would fold up much like a swim ladder does to allow an infill to create a large double berth. Behind that is the head to starboard and a large set of draws and hanging locker to port. Up just one step to the galley on the port side and the helm (raised) and refrigeration / storage on the starboard side. Up another step and there is a large (convertible) dinette and a facing settee (also convertible). A flip up leaf increase dining when necessary. A huge sliding sunroof overhead and either flip up rear windows, or simple roll up 'clears' will 'bring this area outdoors'.
Over a small step (to prevent water ingress) and out to the oversized boarding platform. This takes the place of a cockpit - with the main seating a virtual outdoor lounge, this seems quite practical. There is still sufficient room to stow a small tender or for a couple of people to fish. Steps make access to the side decks simple an safe.
Ok - lets hear it - all criticisms will be taken to heart - so congratulatory messages of support only please