can we start drawing yet...?

[Willallison]

Ok, must be time we threw some ideas down on paper (or screen as the case may be)
Here (as you will have seen before) is an idea of hull shape (though at the moment it carries too much deadrise. Some styling and interior sketches will follow.....

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...t=1&thecat=502


and this is from Polarity, with an intriguing stern treatment....

http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...t=1&thecat=502

and http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...t=1&thecat=502


We've all heard one anothers ideas (over and over! ) now lets see them....

[Polarity]

Yaaaay to that!

[Nomad]

[duluthboats]

A good starting point.

http://a7.cpimg.com/image/75/66/8756...-0200016B-.jpg

Bluejacket 24 specifications


Length over all = 24 ft 3 inches = 291 inches

Beam = 96 inches (hull), 98 inches (incl. rubrails)

Beam, waterline (max) = 78 inches (hull), 80 inches ( incl. splashrail)

Beam, waterline (transom) = 70 inches (hull), 72 inches (incl. splashrail)

Headroom (over bunks) = 36 inches

Headroom (forecabin) = 48 inches

Headroom (pilothouse) = 75 inches

Weight, dry w/o engine = 1850 lb

Positive floatation = >1600 lb (foam)

Power = 50hp outboard

Displacement, cruising w/engine, fuel, water, 2 crew & stores = 2850 lb

Freeboard, forward = 48 inches

Freeboard, aft = 34 inches

Speed, max = 23mph

Speed, cruising = 11 to 17 mph

[Willallison]

These are both images from previous posts of mine. Aspects like deadrise, engine installation (single or twins?) etc still need to be addressed.
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...to=95&size=big
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/sh...o.php?photo=94

"Liz" is a fine example of what can be fitted into a 24ft (7.4m) hull. We have given ourselves the luxury of a few extra feet. I think that provides the opportunity to locate the head up fwd. This will allow better sightlines from the helm and open the entire cabin / cockpit up. On the downside, it will make the entire boat taller, in order to create sufficient headroom in the fwd cabin and head. Eliminating the separation between cockpit and cabin maximises the living space available. In my experience, the greatest impediment to spending long periods aboard a small boat is space - and being able to avoid 'tripping over one-another'.
An intelligent canopy system can work very well regardless of climate. It also reduces weight up high and with a colapsing radar arch can reduce trailering height. On the downside, you lose the security of a lockable main cabin. Heating is no problem - on my Searay, we use a "Heat Pal" - a little metho heater which uses very little fuel and warms the entire boat in no time.
Lay it on me boys - lets hear some constructive criticism.....

[duluthboats]

Heat Pal??

OK, here’s my vision of O-1, it’s similar to Mike and Will’s vision except. We add about 5’ to the LOA on Blue Jacket. Give the forward cabin standing head room. Remove the berth from the forward cabin. Place head, galley and dinning in forward cabin. Raise pilot house and cockpit deck to self bailing height. Shorten the pilot house. Place a sleeping cabin aft, with standing head room in the center, single berths on each side extending forward under cockpit benches. We get 8knots to put some workboat styling on everything topside. A soft top might work. And a storable bug screen for the cockpit area.

So how do I make my vision your vision?

Gary

[tom28571]

Originally posted by duluthboats
Heat Pal??

OK, here’s my vision of O-1, it’s similar to Mike and Will’s vision except. We add about 5’ to the LOA on Blue Jacket. Give the forward cabin standing head room. Remove the berth from the forward cabin. Place head, galley and dinning in forward cabin.

>This will increase the windage forward by about 50% unless you intend to make a very deep forefoot.<

Raise pilot house and cockpit deck to self bailing height.

>Bluejacket's pilothouse sole is right at the waterline now and the cockpit is already self draining truough transom scuppers.<

Place a sleeping cabin aft, with standing head room in the center, single berths on each side extending forward under cockpit benches.

>Now we are really talking windage and where is the engine to go? Remember, this boat has a maximum beam of 8ft 4in.<

A soft top might work. And a storable bug screen for the cockpit area.

>If the main sleeping cabin is aft, where is the cockpit to go?<

So how do I make my vision your vision?

Gary

Please don't take this the wrong way Gary but the boat in the link below has all that you want in your vision. To me, this is pretty near to a nightmare. Tell me you don't really mean it.

http://media5.hypernet.com/ubb/ultim...2;t=001731;p=2

Ducking behind the taffrail, I remain, y'r 'umble serv'nt,

Tom

[Jeff]

LOL - gasp - groan - choke - need oxygen please

--the only thing it needs is an open air deck on top, a taller radar arch, and a smaller bow

[tom28571]

Originally posted by Willallison
These are both images from previous posts of mine. Aspects like deadrise, engine installation (single or twins?) etc still need to be addressed.
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/in...to=95&size=big
http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/index.pl?photo=94

"Liz" is a fine example of what can be fitted into a 24ft (7.4m) hull. We have given ourselves the luxury of a few extra feet. I think that provides the opportunity to locate the head up fwd. This will allow better sightlines from the helm and open the entire cabin / cockpit up. On the downside, it will make the entire boat taller, in order to create sufficient headroom in the fwd cabin and head. Eliminating the separation between cockpit and cabin maximises the living space available. In my experience, the greatest impediment to spending long periods aboard a small boat is space - and being able to avoid 'tripping over one-another'.
An intelligent canopy system can work very well regardless of climate. It also reduces weight up high and with a colapsing radar arch can reduce trailering height. On the downside, you lose the security of a lockable main cabin. Heating is no problem - on my Searay, we use a "Heat Pal" - a little metho heater which uses very little fuel and warms the entire boat in no time.
Lay it on me boys - lets hear some constructive criticism.....

Will, I wrote a lengthy reply but lost it in copying stuff and am too mad to redo it now.

Tom

[Willallison]

1. Heat Pal - is simply the brand name of the methylated spirits burning heater that I use on my boat. It is light, compact and folds away for easy stowage.

2. Sorry Gary - I'm with the others on your aft cabin idea. There are a few examples of where it has been done before:
http://www.nimbus.se/displayModel-hi...0%20:and:%2027

but the fact that few if any such models are still in production today must tell us something about the success of their design. And for me, any boat that doesn't have an aft cockpit, with simple access to a boarding platform, is a boat which is designed to stay tied to the dock!

3. Tom, LOL! I look forward to your re-write!

[Portager]

Will;

My personal preference would be to have a hardtop. Since I am the worlds most efficient UV collector , I need to limit my solar exposure. Since I would never or almost never take the top down, I'd prefer to have a hardtop and lockable cabin. In addition, I hate looking through waive Eisenglass.

OTOH, since I know I've got the minority view, I'd settle for a removable or optional hardtop.

If you are going to drop the top and lower the radar to reduce trailer height, won't you need to hinge the windshield? I think we should keep it as simple as possible (i.e. fixed radar arch, windshield, ...) until we determine we have a height problem. You can go to 13' 6" or higher on the trailer in all the USA and I think Canada. I don't know what the limits in Europe and Australia are.

I don't think the head forward will work. Once the bow starts curving upward there wouldn't be enough head room for a stand-up shower. A vee berth would be a better usage of that space.

Duluthboats AKA Gary for info on the "Heat Pal" see http://www.origo-sweden.com/products/heater.asp . Will, I'd be very careful using an alcohol burner unless you have good ventilation (my problem is I never know how good is good enough engineering has made me overly safety conscious).

I've been kind of quiet lately because I've been researching heater, stove and water heater options. I'll try and post a good summary tonight.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[duluthboats]

LOL!! I’m thinking nobody else has the same vision as me. First off the description above was of a boat I hope to build someday. It could work for O-1, but might just be a little off center for many to fall in love with. I knew that, but hoped it would draw out a few of the new members to take some shots at it. The great thing about words is I can write what I see in my mind and then be amazed at how people interrupt it. Actually I couldn’t open Will’s link so I don’t know what he pictured but Tom, I laughed when I first saw that picture on WB forum. The lines aren’t done and the many discussions here have led to lots of changes, but the description is still to the point. Someday I will share it with you. If you want a hint take Dave Gear’s Crackerjack, put it on a Sea Bright hull and add an outboard. The aft cabin works great for hiding the outboard, and if designed right would allow easy access to a folding swim platform. All this would fit on O-1, except for the hull form which I choose for many reasons, speed not being one. Enough dreaming.

Below the water line the C-Dory and Blue Jacket are very similar, except for the dory bow. BJ’s bow gives added volume without adding to LOA. For me this is a plus, we need the space. As for Wills topside my concern is with the soft top up, which it would be most of the time in a cold clime, how easy is it, to be docked single handed. I like the pilot station close to the cockpit.

Gary
Here for the duration.

[Willallison]

hmm... shame you couldn't use the link, try going to www.nimbus.se and click on the "models history" button, then I think it was one of their 26 / 27 footers. I had a sneaking suspicion that your description had more to it than met the eye...

As for the soft top, I live in a fairly cold climate and have a similar canopy set up. I find that on a truly cold day I have my heater going so warmth is not a problem. If there's any sunshine about, the cockpit warms up nicely on its own and my boat seems warmer than a more traditional hard-top. When it is warm, I simply progressively "peel back the sides and / or lid" to suit.
As for docking single handed, I'm not sure what your concern is. If I'm approaching a dock, I roll up one of the aft side curtains giving immediate access to the side deck. I have a zipper rear door which gives similar access to the boarding platform.

I also see no reason why Mike's idea of a removable hard-top - indeed perhaps a full hard-top version couldn't be incorporated - something like this:

[tom28571]

OK, I have recovered my composure after losing the previous coments on Will's post.

Will > "Liz" is a fine example of what can be fitted into a 24ft (7.4m) hull. We have given ourselves the luxury of a few extra feet. I think that provides the opportunity to locate the head up fwd. This will allow better sightlines from the helm and open the entire cabin / cockpit up. On the downside, it will make the entire boat taller, in order to create sufficient headroom in the fwd cabin and head. <

Visibility from the steering station was a big goal for me. I set it up so that my eye level is the same whether sitting or standing. That is a subtle thing but very nice. I find the all round vision excellent. I expected that vision to the aft quarters might be limited but I have had no problem with that and think the arangement is fine, at least for me.


Will > Eliminating the separation between cockpit and cabin maximises the living space available. In my experience, the greatest impediment to spending long periods aboard a small boat is space - and being able to avoid 'tripping over one-another'. <

Could not agree more that plenty of space is a plus rather than crowding too much stuff in the limited volume.


Will > An intelligent canopy system can work very well regardless of climate. It also reduces weight up high and with a colapsing radar arch can reduce trailering height. On the downside, you lose the security of a lockable main cabin. <

I wanted to fit a canopy aft but it just looked too high over the self draining cockpit. It also limits quick access to the side deck although that is no problem for us since we do all the mooring and anchor work from the anchor well through the forward hatch. I am still toying with a partial canopy over the forward part of the cockpit. The self draining anchor well is such a great idea that I took from other designs that it will be on any boat I design or build from now on.

Will > Heating is no problem - on my Searay, we use a "Heat Pal" - a little metho heater which uses very little fuel and warms the entire boat in no time. <

Sounds fine to me but I expect that the others will want a more sophisticated heating system.

Will > Lay it on me boys - lets hear some constructive criticism.....<

Here is a boat with a quart stuffed in a pint pot. Lots of amenities but not much room. It's not a full planing hull so will not fit our profile.

http://home.fox.nstn.ca/~bobrsbro/

Gary, the C-Dory hull is nothing like the Bluejacket. It's a nearly flat bottom with very little deadrise fore or aft. Like most dorys, the bottom is fairly narrow with a lot of hull flair. I don't push the Bluejacket as being fast in rough water but it is positively smooth compared to the pounding ride of the C-Dory. Interior of the C-Dory is also pretty crude and the sleeping cabin is kind of cramped. It does not have a self bailing cockpit which I could not accept. They now make a 24 footer that I'm not familiar with.

http://www.c-dory.com/C-Dory%2022.htm

There is another boat called the Badnam Launch built in Britain that was featured in a boat test article in Practical Boat Owner recently. A very handsome 25.5 footer that has a deeper forefoot and higher foredeck to inclose a forward head. The interior is very open and they claim a very smooth ride with a much finer entry than "Liz" has. It's equiped with refrigeration and freezer, shower, hot and cold pressurized water, gas heater, etc., etc. The hull is molded of three layers of 3mm ply which seems kind of light to me. That fine entry results in less overall interior room than the Bluejacket though and top speed is over 25% less at a top of 16kts with the same power.

Getting more speed in waves than Bluejacket will mean more deadrise and a finer bow. That will use up some of the extra length we are giving her and will also mean a higher displacement length ratio for equal stability with the deeper V although I could increase the deadrise to at least 12 degrees with no ill effects since I think I was a bit conservative there. An aft section deadrise of about 15 degrees might be about right for O-1.

[Portager]

Originally posted by duluthboats
If you want a hint take Dave Gear’s Crackerjack, put it on a Sea Bright hull and add an outboard

I thought of Crackerjack when I read your description. I'd rather just keep Crackerjack as it is. Inboard diesel and all .

Will;

I like the hart-top option and my bald head likes it too. I even think it looks a lot better!

Cheers;
Mike Schooley