can we start drawing yet...?

[Willallison]

Tom, by incorporating a one level, self-draining cockpit - which also houses your living spaces - I believe that you can quite successfully completely enclose the cockpit with covers. Then, with a slightly raised helm and the head located fwd, there is nothing to impair vision. (My refernce to "Liz" was indeed about the vision aft - with small children and dogs aboard, I like to be able to see every quarter....)
I'm still a little baffled by the concern over side-deck access - it takes me less than 5 seconds to unzip one of my side curtains. I have immediate access to anywhere I want. I modified the operations of the covers on my own boat to suit my own needs - I'll try to post a pic if I can find one....

Gary - alas I can't find a site showing the "Crackerjack" to which you refer - any suggestions...
Here's another small aft cabin cruiser. But once again - there ain'i no cockpit to speak of - where do you sit?

[Willallison]

'nother thought....
I would agree with Tom as far as deadrise - indeed 12 degrees is the figure I had in mind. But I think we could successfully sharpen the entry a little without losing too much interior space - not as much as the Badnam...

http://www.boats-uk.co.uk/Pages/Red%...hts/Badnam.htm

[Portager]

The Badnam Launch http://www.boats-uk.co.uk/Pages/Red%...hts/Badnam.htm is very nice. The beam is only 7' 9". If you scaled the Badnam Launch up to 8' 6" it would be 27' 5" long. Not very far from O-1.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Portager]

As I said earlier, I've been investigating heater, stove and water heater options.

The best reference I found online is http://www.uaf.edu/seagrant/boatkeeper/boat-heat.pdf very informative.

I looked into combined stove, furnace and water heaters, but the problem with these units is you can't get hot water without heating up the cabin. This might be very inconvenient in the summer , so I discarded this option.

The next option was to combine the water heater and space heater. By using a Hydronic heat system (hot water with liquid to air heat exchangers aka radiator) we can provide highly controllable zone heating and hot water. I figured I could use a propane water heater with hydronics, but it turn out some tankless systems don't hold up to this well. I did find the Takagi TK-2 can be used. http://www.energyfirsthomes.com/Takagi.htm . Suggested list price is $1497.00.

There are several diesel systems that can be used for Hydronic heat and hot water. I checked into several systems and I think the Webasto Thermo 90S looks like the best choice. I got pricing from a dealer. The cost of the unit is $1,750.85 but the complete install kit (including the heater) is $3,209.00 this includes exhaust pipe, muffler, mounting brackets, 100' of hose, ...

I assume the installation cost for the Takagi would be about the same as the Webasto, but the propane system will also require a propane locker and gas sniffers ~$250. Propane tanks are more expensive than diesel tanks and must be stored higher on the boat to meet the propane locker venting requirements.

Stoves: I think the real kicker is the stove. Gas stoves are much cheaper and easier to use. Diesel stoves weigh more and they take longer to heat up and take longer to cool off, so they heat up the cabin more. Another option would be to use a portable butane stove ~$59 which could be moved to the cockpit if it gets too hot in the cabin. One disadvantage is you don't get an oven. The Butane canisters could be stored in a bag attached to the aft rail.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Portager]

Originally posted by Willallison
alas I can't find a site showing the "Crackerjack" to which you refer - any suggestions...

I could scan it form "The Nature of Boats", but would I violate copyright laws if I posted it? I could reference the book or maybe somebody knows how to ask Dave Geer for permission?

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Willallison]

Mike, from all that we seem to be left with the propane tankless system as the only sensible option.
I did manage to find one site which looked promising http://www.homeportcommunications.com/ , but the system is still under development and when I made enquiries about its suitability for our project I got almost nothing in reply.....

[Portager]

Will;

I wouldn't say the propane tankless system is the only sensible option. The Diesel heaters are more mature and safer. I was in error when I said the diesel stoves were more expensive than propane. I forgot how expensive marine propane stoves are.

One thing I forgot to mention is the Hydronic heat systems can draw a fair amount of electrical power from the battery bank for the circulation pump. This will necessitate a larger battery bank for very cold climates.

For the Butane stove I'd use something like this US $64.99. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/com...=10786&outlet= and the canister storage bag is US $29.99 http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/com..._name=&outlet= .

Here is a two burner propane drop-in range US $399.99 http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/com..._name=&outlet= if you want a stone and oven then here is a typical one for US $1,149.99 http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/com..._name=&outlet=

Here are some diesel stoves for comparison http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/shop/...ies-stoves.asp . The Bristol Diesel Cookstove with Oven is US $1,008.00.

Here is an example of a propane locker (although a handyman could build his own for le$$) US $549.99 single 10 lb bottle. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/com..._name=&outlet= and a double 10 lb bottle box US$ 649.99 http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/com..._name=&outlet=.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[tom28571]

I used a 2 burner cooktop that I got from sears about 25 years ago that was built into a portable wooden "galley" containing the small 17oz propane bottle, utensil drawer, frypan and small pot. I used it in a sailboat and a campervan until I sold the boat. Then I could not find another similar and used a portable Coleman for 10 years. Recently I found a stainless drop-in cooktop that works great but requires an additional regulator to work with the small bottles. It's available from Vitco and is far cheaper than anything bought from a marine store - about $85.

http://www.vitco.com/ws/2_Burner_Stove_2.html

It can be had in stainless or white enamel built in to a portable box and the quality looks just as good as the high priced stuff.

We have always screwed the bottle on when for use and removed afterwards. The bottles are stored in the cockpit in an overboard draining locker. We mostly cook in the cockpit anyway and this keeps odors and heat out of the interior. We don't mind the camping lifestyle as long as there is plenty of comfortable room to avoid "cabin fever".

On the vision thing, the Badnam vision seems to be poor. The skipper pokes out through a hole in the cabintop to see over the bow. In bad weather, he must sit much lower where forward vision is very limited. Not good. There is also an outside steering station on the aft cabin bulkhead where he also looks over the cabintop.

Making the pilothouse sole self draining with the cockpit would make the top at least 8 inches higher and it is already as high as I'd want on a small and light boat like this. The sidedeck access on "Liz" would be limited by a cockpit canopy because the side decks are so high you would bang your head on the canopy climbing out of the cockpit. There are ways around this but not on my boat as it's built.

[Portager]

Tom;

I think the portable stoves are fine provided the gas bottle is removed after use and stored in a vented locker as you do. This saves a lot of cost and allows you to use the stove in the cockpit on warm days. A locker for the small propane cylinders could be built-in just about anywhere. I would like to see a simple clamp or latch to hold the stove in place if you fit a wake or one hits you unexpectedly.

All;

How about Sam Devlin's Surf Scoter 25'? http://www.devlinboat.com/dcsurfscoter25.htm . It is very close to O-1's objectives (except for the hot shower, it is a semi-displacement hull, ...). With the added length you could make the head/shower bigger and/or increase the area in the cockpit. It doesn't look like the Surf Scoter 25 mid-cabin is self bailing though. I'm not sure we have enough beam or low enough CG to raise the mid-cabin enough to do that (at least not without getting rid of my hardtop). Our outboard will produce a higher CG than the Surf Scoter diesel stern drive.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Polarity]

What about kerosene/white spirit/parrafin - basically all the same stuff more or less refined.
My Taylors cooker and seperate heater (with a Hot water option) works great!, its cheap, easy to store, if there is a leak you get a smell and a wet patch. No Kaboom! Ok so you have to burn a little meths/alcohol/vodka to get it heated up but that takes 20 secs then it's just like gas. ...
Cooker: http://www.chillington-marine.co.uk/taylors_030l.htm

Heater: http://www.chillington-marine.co.uk/taylors_079d.htm

Seperate pressurised tank and the stuff is about as flammable as diesel. - ie not very!
You can just imagine one of these beauties in 8's One hour sketch on a cold Alaska day. Warms you to the toes dont it...

Paul
(Barcelona where it is presently V Hot!)

[Willallison]

As I've said before, I use a little portable methylated spirits burning heater. As long as you ensure sufficient room ventilation, it works extremely well. And it uses the same fuel as the Kenyon 2-burner spirit coocktop that I have.
All these systems are great - as are many of those that others have posted. The problem is coming up with a system which will also provide hot water.....hopefully I'll have an alternative by days end.....watch this space.......
Incidentally, I recently installed a Magma bbq on the back of my boat (heat bead type). It's fantastic! Suddenly I can have roasts, fish, steak - you name it - and all the smell and mess stays outside.........

[duluthboats]

http://www.nimbus.se/docpic/15.history.jpg

Will, the site opens here at work, and this boat has more room in the aft cabin then I was thinking.

Tom, I went to the C-Dory dealer to check the hull. I could have saved myself the trip. For some reason I remember them with more deadrise.

Mike, I like all of Devlin's boats.

Gary

[tom28571]

I hoped to see the Surf Scoter 25 last year at Port Townsend but Sam said that the only one was in use by the owner and not available. I am fairly familiar with Devlin's boats and the 25 does have a lot of the same features of Bluejacket but it is a far, far heavier hull. Heck, the 22 is much heavier than Bluejacket too. His boats are very nice although not true planing boats and pretty expensive for my wallet. I drove the 22 in Puget Sound some years ago. It kind of shoulders it's way through waves rather than jumping over them and for it's purpose a very nice boat.

[Portager]

Originally posted by tom28571
I am fairly familiar with Devlin's boats and the 25 does have a lot of the same features of Bluejacket but it is a far, far heavier hull. Heck, the 22 is much heavier than Bluejacket too. His boats are very nice although not true planing boats and pretty expensive for my wallet. I drove the 22 in Puget Sound some years ago. It kind of shoulders it's way through waves rather than jumping over them and for it's purpose a very nice boat.

Although not exactly what O-1 is intended to be, it is closer to my likes. The Pacific here in Southern California can get rough and I have learned that what goes up must come down. I've had enough of the coming down part, so I am looking for a boat that goes up less.

Sam claims the Surf Scoter 25 will do 26 knots max and cruise at 18-20 knots with a 135 HP diesel duo-prop stern drive. Sounds pretty good to me. I'd gladly sacrifice a little speed on the flat for better speed and comfort in the rough.

Cheers;
Mike Schooley

[Portager]

Originally posted by Polarity
What about kerosene/white spirit/parrafin - basically all the same stuff more or less refined.
My Taylors cooker and seperate heater (with a Hot water option) works great!, its cheap, easy to store, if there is a leak you get a smell and a wet patch. No Kaboom! Ok so you have to burn a little meths/alcohol/vodka to get it heated up but that takes 20 secs then it's just like gas. ...
Cooker: http://www.chillington-marine.co.uk/taylors_030l.htm

Heater: http://www.chillington-marine.co.uk/taylors_079d.htm

Seperate pressurised tank and the stuff is about as flammable as diesel. - ie not very!
You can just imagine one of these beauties in 8's One hour sketch on a cold Alaska day. Warms you to the toes dont it...)

According to this web site http://www.solentmarine.co.uk/produc...20Cookers.html the Taylor 030 is £999.00 that is US $1,548 and http://www.solentmarine.co.uk/produc...20Heaters.html the Taylor 079 is £599.00 or US $927. I know these are only list price and you could probably find a better deal, but so are the rest of the prices I provided.

Do you have the water heater option in your stove? If so how well does it work?

Cheers;
Mike Schooley