Global economic situation for liveaboard cruising yachties

[masalai]

Has recent economic developments impacted on your liveaboard lifestyle as a cruising yachtie....

Do you sense significant changes must be made? - - How will you continue to practice your "cruising Yachtie lifestyle"

Does the economic changes we are experiencing, give you different ideas as to cruising grounds and type of cruising boat as your "liveaboard"....

Please keep it to practical stuff that your experience has determined... (no dreams or fanciful wish lists please as most cruising yachties are NOT mega rich or even a bit wealthy - apart from their boat and lifestyle)

How do you plan to meet some of the possible future challenges, such as fuel needs, income generation, maintenance, spares, repairs use of non-chandlery sourced equipment and gear?????

The reason? - I am about to commence building a Bob Oram 39'C and figure any expertise anyone how is cruising may wish to share would be useful to me and many other cruising members....

[thudpucker]

The one common thread to retirement is "MO Money!"

If you have enough of that stuff, you wont encounter any unsolvable problems.
Where there's a need, there will be someone to fill it.
I thought of that stuff a few years ago when I was going to retire on my 24' Fiberform. Now, even with the Economic situation and all the terrorists in the world, there's still services everywhere. Even in places you wouldnt want to go.

[Tcubed]

Given that all the evidence is pointing at global peak oil happening in the now, I wonder if having a fiberglass boat is all that good an idea for the long term.

[Manie B]

Mas i am glad that you have brought up the subject,
i asked a similar question quite some time ago but it is certainly time to have a completely new look on the subject and have the latest input.

i have a regular look at the following sites and their links

http://www.cruiserlog.com/forums/

http://www.cruisersforum.com/

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/featured-articles/

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showforum=37

http://www.thecoastalpassage.com/

http://www.hostmybb.com/phpbb/index.php?mforum=easy

http://www.trimaran-naga.com/adventures.htm

http://www.maxingout.com/index.htm

the general feeling that i still get, is that it is still possible to cruise conservatively for well under US$ 2k per month per couple, however having said that it is important to remember "conservatively"

this means anchoring and not walk-on jetties with TV connections and and and
get a good dinghy

restaurants are a rare occasion
the folks that cruise out to the "isolated natures paradise" have a whale of a time "living of the land" and trading simple items for food
it is very important to be self sufficient and you must be able to do all your own maintenace especially in the places that are off the beaten track

the means of earning an income seems to be mostly rentals collected from properties and yes there are obviously folks out there with huge bank balances and pensions, but i am convinced that many "cruiser" yoties are regular folk earning an income from odd jobs as well

it certainly is going to be interesting to hear what BD.net gang has to say - and why

please guys post links if you can

[Jimbo1490]

The only thing about "Peak Oil" we have to worry about is that if enough people believe in a Malthusian catastrophe based on it we will wind up in a big war over the remaining crude oil reserves.

On the energy front, we are now poised to replace petroleum completely with ethanol at prices competitive with current crude oil prices.

http://thefraserdomain.typepad.com/e...nol/index.html

Several US states, including my state of Florida, have invested in pilot 'proving' cellulosic ethanol production plants. Right now, these are 3X more efficient than corn ethanol and have a true positive energy balance (which as we all know corn ethanol DOES NOT) and when true industrial-sized plants are built will be 10X as efficient as corn ethanol and IMMEDIATELY competitive with gasoline. Then we can save most of our petroleum for resins and other important petrochemical uses instead of just burning it up in engines.

I guess we don't hear much about this as there are no 'cellulose producing states' in the midwestern US where congressmen are motivated to push their self-serving agenda under the guise of 'green technology'.

Think about what that will do for the recycling business as all the waste paper we now put into landfills can be 'harvested' for ethanol production. Ditto for tree waste, yard clippings and on and on.

I remember right after hurricane Charlie here in Orlando how the city municipal works had accumulated many enormous piles of tree waste, 50-70 feet high, hundreds of feet wide and long. Every city and county in the path of these storms had many such piles. All was eventually either turned into mulch or burned. We could be burning such waste streams for our energy needs instead of burning them uselessly as we do now.

Jimbo

[Manie B]

please answer the question

How will you continue to practice your "cruising Yachtie lifestyle"

guys please dont turn this into another drivel / global politics sh1t thread

[masalai]

Global economic situation for liveaboard cruising yachties
Has recent economic developments impacted on your liveaboard lifestyle as a cruising yachtie....

Do you sense significant changes must be made? - - How will you continue to practice your "cruising Yachtie lifestyle"

Does the economic changes we are experiencing, give you different ideas as to cruising grounds and type of cruising boat as your "liveaboard"....

Please keep it to practical stuff that your experience has determined... (no dreams or fanciful wish lists please as most cruising yachties are NOT mega rich or even a bit wealthy - apart from their boat and lifestyle)

How do you plan to meet some of the possible future challenges, such as fuel needs, income generation, maintenance, spares, repairs use of non-chandlery sourced equipment and gear?????

The reason? - I am about to commence building a Bob Oram 39'C and figure any expertise anyone how is cruising may wish to share would be useful to me and many other cruising members....

I will bore you all with copy and paste of the topic for discussion here. - please keep it relevant to the thread as I lost a lot of useful links kept in Global politics & economics etc when it was deleted because of certain intolerant petulant behaviour from, I gather usanians who do not believe in free speech or opinions other than their own should have space....

[marshmat]

Hi Mas,

Not a "liveaboard cruising yachtie", although I wish I were sometimes.

As far as adapting to the current economic climate: My Bolger-designed runabout is pretty economical to run. Even at the peak of last summer it was less than $30 to fill the tank, good for a couple of days of canal and lake cruising. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the car that tows her.... a cheap, efficient Hyundai, but you still feel the gas price hit when trailering. So, once I find somewhere to work, I'll be keeping her close to home and doing more local cruising.

As far as equipment goes, buying out the chandlery has never been my style- as much as possible is home-built, or procured from cheaper sources. And I'll be hanging around the used gear markets and swap meets a bit more this year.

I'm curious how those with bigger boats in more exotic locations are planning to cope...

[Landlubber]

Mas, I have been fortunate enough to spend many years living on board, some of those years were, like 1989 time, when the world was falling to pieces, it made no difference to my life, in fact i did not listen to the news radio anyhow, and that trip was very economical to live through.

I suppose really it all depends on the lifestyle that you personally expect to live to. My current boss, God bless him, is not used to eating out for under $50 a head, i am not used to eating for over $5 per head....so that I guess is where most of the "money " problems occur. US$2000 a month....yikes, I would not spend that much in a year living on board. In the Pacific (my playground), I always go to the local chief, ask him if I may use his waters and offer to do whatever he would like me to do. It normally ends up rebuilding outboards stored under the bures, they get fuel contamination mostly and they put them away. In the old days it was Seagulls, today it is the 25/30 yammie, but they are rarely seized.

One fix up (make running , no parts cost involved) will yield you so much food that you have to have a beach party with them all to eat it....fruits and fish.

If you eat fish for a living, and it is very good as it is still wriggling, then the costs of cruising are minimal.

Port costs are not too dear really, lighthouse fees etc etc seem a pain in the backside, but it is nice to see the lights when you expect them to become visible, so i have no worries paying them.

Charts can be borrowed or copied from other cruisers that are going on their way, often working at the marinas proves very beneficial, the scrap bins have lots of perfectly good stuff in them, many wealthy people simply choose to "up grade"...the old ones have no value, so end up in the bin.

I am a Shipwright and Marine Engineer, so I can do anything on my own boats, if you have to learn a bit, do so, you will certainly learn a hell of a lot building your own boat of course, but never be afraid to ask if you are uncertain. Do not pretend to be Mr. Big and know it all, if there is ANY doubt in ANY process and the question, you will be given the answer or the guy doing the job should be removed.

and, remember, this is supposed to be fun....enjoy!

[Landlubber]

Oh yeah, I might add that I have no money worries, I have no money!

KISS remember.

[masalai]

Hehehe, I expected skills like that from an "expat from PNG". but many quiet spots have been spoiled by the loud-mouth crowd, more is the pity, Having spent several sessions working in SI, & Vanuatu as well as PNG, but the greeting initially has some hostility because the locals remember the "overpaid & overhere issues".... I was hoping to steer a course of pacification - but I am still upset at what transpired on this net Saturday (AEST -10utc)....

[Manie B]

Mas here is some more very good reading on the cruising lifestyle
it gives an insight into costs and how problems were overcome

http://www.minuit.net/engpages/main.htm

this site has a lot of info on what works and what doesn't

http://creative-cruising.com/sailing-what-works.htm

Landlubber your input is great however i think that things have changed a bit

some of those years were, like 1989 time, when the world was falling to pieces

US$2000 a month....yikes, I would not spend that much in a year living on board.

one of the sites has a complete breakdown of costs 2007 and i will post it when i come across it, i have so much of this stuff that i cant find it on my computer any more. It took into consideration all sorts of things (big and small) like entry costs (customs - visas etc) maintenance, basic food, charts, fuel and many many more small items - all these items already came to US$ 12k per annum. If i remember correctly they only used their motor approx 25% of time while making way and one hour a day to top up batteries.
They hauled and cleaned the bottom every year and repainted antifoul every two years.

Not included was 2 flights home for funerals in a three year period

One fix up (make running , no parts cost involved) will yield you so much food that you have to have a beach party with them all to eat it....fruits and fish.

this seems to be absolutely true to this day
one couple even transported goods / spares back and forth a few times

we are all old
throw away the gawd damn TV
listen to the radio for weather reports and golden oldies music
go and live of fruit and fish where the locals think you are kinda cool
carry lots of tools and learn how to fix things - anything

[masalai]

Manie, not that difficult to achieve low cost cruising except for compulsory need to clean the boats bum, maintain your rigging, and associated costs - easier on a 30ft mono as a sole sailor who "scores" a companion occasionally. and visas and entry fees change all the time... Catch fish, assist local islanders to maintain, repair and stuff like that... or trade from your stock of stored second hand clothing bought from one of the service groups like "Salvation Army", "St Vincents", "red Cross" etc ...

When the economic systems collapse and anarchy reins supreme those costs may dissappear or there will be no one to patrol or watch who travels illegally - - just cruise like 200 odd years ago....

[Manie B]

Jeez Mas a bit "dark" for a Monday morning hey

When the economic systems collapse and anarchy reins supreme

well we will then have to do your coconut oil (diesel) venture and i will then come and work for you as a technician - as long as you can pay me fruit and fish

How do you plan to meet some of the possible future challenges

what you should also see now when you start to build is that boat repairs can be done with relatively light tools - sander, grinder, drill, etc. Basic engine spares can be carted along, and if looked after the modern engine could outlast my lifetime anyway

stranded mariner has got a very smart little "workshop" on the boat that Wynand is building and i feel that it is a must on any boat as i am sure that you are going to build a liveable "working" boat and not a "roomaran" with 4 heads and showers for the neighbours

i am working on "cheap" emergency sails as spares
modern fabrics / cloths that are used commercially for tents etc. are immensely strong and relatively cheap and are ideal for a set of emergency sails if you had a failure.
will keep you posted

my mast will have those step things on the sides so that i can climb up there for inspections and repairs

[masalai]

Last things first - - and significantly weaken the mast? - - I suggest you cover something loosley with a "cheap" tarp and at 100kmh, may last about 50km till it becomes loose threads - - Thems for monohulls - they have a need for lots of ballast - I on a cat wish not to be handicapped by such monstrous weight and will carry "pretend tools" and have porta-potty as toilet or bum over the stern rail .. and 2 bed-spaces one with a mattress the other for workshop tools...

Yes I do get these dark moods occasionally, in response to abject silliness in things I see/hear - wondering that humans - how did the monkeys not succeed? or will they soon.... I am missing an opportunity to "vent my spleen harmlessly"