Global economic situation for liveaboard cruising yachties

[Frosty]

Boston accidents can happen and that could happen anywhere. The West has gone too far with this safety thing.

I saw a guy in Uk trying to start a chain saw he had hired. He had on by law special trousers that were too big for him and were designed to stop him cutting his leg off. goggles , hard hat, and huge gloves that stopped him using the controls as choke etc etc.

I watched as his trousers fell down , his hat was loose and his goggles steamed in his anger at the equipment he was required to use by law.

He eventually lost it and threw all the equipment on the floor to start the saw. That took about 1/2 an hour.

He would be more dangerous with all that stuff than without.

I hope my meaning is clear.

There is nothing wrong with safety in proportion to the danger involved,

But having signs like I saw in Australia above an access hole to domestic supplies in the street where it said that no one without vertigo certificate could enter the hole . I looked down it --it was about 10 feet down.

Do you watch shock wave? American disasters or destroyed in seconds?

helecopters crashing , air show disasters and innocent spectators hurt.

Its no safer, we don't have a glass ball. The East is not as baron in safety as you think. less yes, and to be honest is what attracts me here.

You try driving down the road here without a seat belt or a crash helmet.

[Boston]

its hard to argue with 127,000 industrial deaths in one year
and at that there are viable allegations of significant under-reporting
thats huge frosty and only explicable through a complete lack of regard for the working mans well-being.

in principal I agree with you but the numbers and the pay scales speak volumes, as does the death rates.

round here the middle class is dead and buried
might as well get used to it cause unless there is an armed violent revolution nothings going to change

best wishes
B

not trying to get after you frosty
actually your one of the folks I respect most in this thing
but this free trade shit is a crock and a scam
good for some few impotent rubber necks and the wife beating politicians
but obviously not good for anyone else

[Frosty]

There has to be free trade. When you go the the tool shop, or any shop and the prices vary tremendously what will motivate you.

You could be patriotic I suppose!!! but it wont change anything.

That same machine can be put together quicker and with more safety involved probably in Chinas new factories for a less price. From my side of the fence American products dont exactly shout quality.

Its not capitalism or free trade to say "Oh they have cheated and used kids, we will make a import levy because we cant do that".

You have just done exactly that with Chinese tyres. You cant make them cheaply with your antiquated machinery, and it is,-- I saw a documentary on American tyres from the Model T ford and the supply of rubber from all over the world. Same machines today!!! Yes I was shocked too.

And then you go the other way and demand that you be allowed to sell this if they want to sell that. Thats not free trade, USA can not play fair it never has. You always wanted the edge and the world let you have it.

Now the tide has turned and the East is bigger better faster cheaper. And fortunately with a far better domestic attitude and family life and education.

Eastern factories open every day, they do here!! --god knows the fury in China and Taiwan, Vietnam, as yours close daily.

In any case, its you the consumer that firmly shows with your feet and your wallets that you want cheap and cheaper, well you got what you asked for now you cant compete.

Ive heard so many times from Americans that they (USA) can be self sufficient and don't need the rest of the world, --such is the ego.

I think it is now the other way round.

Im not getting at you either Boston --really. I have respect for you as a real American.

[masalai]

Weeeeell, getting back to fiscal matters and gold related stuff at that "Inside the global frenzy for gold" to be found here - - http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/bu...gold.html?_r=2

The present price of gold is greatly undervaluing that form of money as in 1980 inflation adjusted terms gold was the equivalent of US$2000/oz in today's terms so there is quite a bit of "UPSIDE" movement left in the yellow metal... - Even I might consider selling at that price, but there is a lot more steam in the yellow stuff beyond that... Then look at http://www.kitco.com/gold_currency/charts.htm?AUD on a 10 year basis, then plot a smoothed curve to show a neat exponential form projected to the end of 2009, remember that the price has been suppressed SAVAGELY in US$ terms and the AU$ has very rapidly increased in value as a result of the US$ carry-trade as USA citizens panic move their assets to somewhere "safe" and where some interest if paid in their money, so the exchange rate should involve even more AU$ than US$ per ounce if the true value was achieved... Look at Vietnam, Cambodia and even Thailand where there is a premium for gold above what the exchange rate would indicate for local purchases in those countries... All this manipulation is thanks to "free and fair trade" by USA - - NOT - - Thieving mongrels...

http://www.gata.org/node/8000 "John Dizard: Why gold is certain to move higher" http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bf99d538-c...nclick_check=1

[Boston]

it was a temporary hijacking
craziest thing
it seemed like the guys who took over the cock pit just wanted to make a statement
then they gave the plane back

Ive heard the american textile industry used as an example, it was a thriving biz back in the 70s but had a poor health record because of all the airborne fibers coming off the machines; along comes the EPA and OSHA and forces the industry to install air scrubbing devices. The textile industry had threatened to just move overseas if the legislation to clean up passed and they did. It had nothing to do with the idea that they still couldnt make money or weren't making money, it was a basic power strugle between gov. and a greedy corporate empire. The gov. lost and so did the workers.

Im positive in countries were the gov. works in more of a partnership role with industry that its bound to be easier to end up owning new equipment. Round here if you buy new stuff your going to get taxed out of existence for it.

I typically buy local and own as few tools from china as possible but thats getting harder and harder to do. Recently I bought a new band saw, sure enough you cant get one built in the USA so I ended up with a Chinese tool, thing is a joke, the blade hits the door so I had to slice out a chunk of that, the cowlings dont fit over the belt so I had to nix them, the thing is so out of balance that try as I might it still shakes lika a dog drying off. It kinda looks like they never tried to use one of these things, but instead just pound em out as fast and cheaply as possible and who cares if it actually works or not. My personal experience is that your right Frosty most americans want cheap and throw away crap; Im definitely not most americans. I dont take loans just cause some fool waves a new car in front of my nose and when I do buy something I pay cash, and I expect it to work properly

its not the country of origin thats the real problem
or the level of craftsmanship that some folks are able to produce
its working on a level playing field thats whats killing the middle class
you are absolutely right
my bills probably equal more in a month than years of earnings in the new Chin empire
they can work for less and I cant so what do my beloved ( choke hack gag ) leaders do
sell my job overseas of course
and what am I supposed to do for work
why live of the government dole of course
and how long can the gov last handing out money left and right while at the same time giving up the income tax base and the manufacturing base and the sails tax base and the property tax base
probably not long
so in the end its selling my job off to the lowest bidder that brought down the American gov.
not that I mind its just that the natives of the land are the ones who tend to be the poorest
and its the poor who pay the highest price

by the way
not everything produced in America is cheap or easy

[WestVanHan]

Have you looked into making your own watermaker?

I built one a few years ago for about 1/5 the price of commercial units.
It didn't have the fancy electronics (something more to go wrong) but a minute's monitoring is not a bother.

I'd go engine drive,not the main but off the genset-doesn't make sense to run a genset to make DC,charge the batteries,then run DC motors or go thru an inverter to run AC motors.
Or have an AC gen,then run an AC motor to turn a motor.

You're losing 15-25% of your energy in conversion.

Originally Posted by masalai

http://www.stihl.com.au/Products/pro...m?iModelID=617 Here it is fitted with a 240VAC electric motor of about 1800 Watts consumption but 12 and 24VDC ones use substantially less (15A?) only guessing here as I feel a bit too lazy to deg through all the stuff in Google... The Marine stuff is around Au$12000 for around 60 litres/hour... Search for SPECTRA as one of the top line (most expensive) models... http://www.spectrawatermakers.com/newport/index.html

http://www.spectrawatermakers.com/ne...ex700_1000.htm uses 750W on mains (240VAC here in OZ) for 109 litres/hour and is almost fully automatic...

http://www.echotecwatermakers.com/ac...ers_yachts.htm

[masalai]

Hi Westie, Have a look at my build, (link at the bottom of each post in the "signature area"), the genset is pictured there on 2 separate posts... There is no where I could fit a pump for a watermaker, and I am making my own, using a "gurney" from Sthil... The other components are difficult to get here... The last link (echotec) comes in at US$5 to 6K and the 40" membranes are quite expensive, so it may get the nod instead - depends on exchange rates around Jan Feb 2010???? - - The reason I like the gurney" approach is that I can use it to clean the bottom to please the Australian customs & Quarintine service by not carrying " bottom growth infestations" into the teritorial waters...... - - My galley is full domestic mains AC, so no hassle there... and the battery grunt is there because it delivers 48 VDC for my Torqeedo electric drive outboards...

[masalai]

Boston, Absolutely beautiful work.... I am waiting eagerly to see the workmanship on your boat build

What is this, Where is the link
"""it was a temporary hijacking - - craziest thing - - it seemed like the guys who took over the cock pit just wanted to make a statement - - then they gave the plane back"""

[mark775]

David Vickers, I think the guy's name was, Nine Points Capital. Knuckleheads will, inevitably, follow knuckleheads. There is much to argue about in the field of economics (none of you are qualified), not as much concerning money management.
One can invest his money any way he sees fit but hear me Mas - Gold is a commodity. I don't know, maybe a third of its value is driven by people like yourself speculating. It will probably go up when the dollar collapses but bear in mind that the price already reflects much anxiety. If you really believe that the shit is going to hit the fan (I do), you will buy things. Get yourself sufficient.
Boston, Pelosi sleezed her healthcare bill through in the middle of the night last night, partially by threatening to pull support for any democrat in the 2010 elections that doesn't come aboard. She is strong in her district and will not lose her seat but she is such a bitch that she is willing to throw not-as-strong Dems under the bus for this. Kinda a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing - the Dems who voted health-care will be voted out in 2010 and 2012 but just the fact that she would force them is an indicator of how vile liberals are. Not only will they be stupid enough to think we can prosper, they will walk on the bodies of those who aren't as strong in their F'ed-up beliefs to model their legacy.

Probably past the point of teasing these individuals, it is becoming deadly serious. The perpetual surprised look on this face will soon be because she will realize it was her more than anyone else destroying the country through ignorance.

[masalai]

Gold is about the only thing I disagree with you on mark... Gold is disliked strongest in those who favour a "fiat currency", for gold bullion, (as opposed to ETF's and other paper replications of gold), forces honesty by its very tangibility, and it is able to expose those keen to manipulate the markets...

That is why many central banks refuse to publish or allow an audit on the gold they hold or have in their custody... This act of hiding and denigrating the "status" of gold, the true position of their gold holdings and commitments thereby allows the lies, cheating, thieving, manipulating operations of the likes of the FED and Goldman...

Gold, because of its rarity, inertness and malleability is unique... Gold has served as money, along with other metals, for more than 6000 years, and will do so long after the US$ and many other fiat currencies collapse and disappear to become curios and collectors pieces...

Fiat currencies are a FALSE GOD because the value of "fiat currency" is SOLELY based on FAITH... Fiat currencies are the creation of man, - something printed on a piece of "paper"... Essentially if you believe in fiat currencies you cannot be a Christian as The bible, (and I understand the Quoran), declares that there is but one God, and fiat currency to work in its current guise must demand your total faith and belief to work...

A Gold, metals and rare items based currency, has always been and is still acceptable as money in most global religious orders... Gold, (and other things) do not require an act of creation by man, nor require a diversion of ones faith, but using the products God has made available...

You as a Christian or a Muslim cannot hold faith in a "fiat currency" and still claim to be Christian of Muslim

[hoytedow]

Boston-Nice porch. The door looks a little scary, though.

[masalai]

http://www.gata.org/node/8002 "Rule by paper or gold, politicians or markets?" - - I would rather gold and markets...
http://www.gata.org/node/8003 "G20 meeting invites fresh pressure on dollar" - - - - - - bugger the panting, push, push PUSH let something new be borne, a gold standard...

[mark775]

For anybody that might think that Pelosi pic is anything other than her, having her face put on in the morning...



"SNEAKER OF THE HOUSE: PASSED ON A SATURDAY NIGHT" -Drudge Report
The bitch really looks like this, all the time.

[mark775]

For any who don't get IT. "Ford Reports Surprise $1 Billion Profit." The only auto company in America not run by Obama and not bailed out is kicking Government Motor Company's ass.

[Boston]

Originally Posted by hoytedow

Boston-Nice porch. The door looks a little scary, though.

ya the front door is on the list but I havn't built it yet
I have one on the drawing board that matches the deck along with a swing but I haven't gotten the go ahead yet
B