Ioniser on top of the mast

[BertKu]

A long time ago I made an ioniser, after a farmer had his electric fence hit 3 times with a direct hit and blew all the time the electronics in the energiser. Sofar the farmer hasn't had a direct hit thereafter after the ioniser was installed.

My question is.

I thought that I have seen an article for an ioniser, which could sense lightning in the area and if there was a change of a discharge, it would either create a high negative potential or a very high positive potential. Such an ioniser would be usefull on a yacht. I asked Michael to search on the Internet (He is in my view an absolute master in finding articles), but haven't heard from him.


For those who like to have a refresh on lightning, here a quick note. Due to friction between the cloudes, some clouds loosing electrons and some clouds are gaining electrons. In a molecule, electrons are circling around the nuclus and if a molecule looses electrons, the molecule would become positive, while if it is gaining negative electrons, the molecule would become negative. If a cloud is full of added negative electrons, the cloud is so badly charged negative, it will discharge them to earth, and like to eqalise itself. You will see a flash from Cloud to Earth. If the cloud looses electrons, the cloud will become positiv and in about 5 - 10% you will have a discharge from earth to the cloud and you will see a lightning strike starting at the earth finding its way to this cloud. About half of the discharges are between the clouds themselves.
It is simplistic explaned, but it is the basis for understanding what I made for the farmer.

Therefore the unit, build for the farmer was switched on, when there was lightning in the area. Sadly I only made it to aid for discharging from cloud to earth. i.e. the tip of the ioniser was made very negative, +/- 200 KV and therefore, it created a worst place for a lightning surge to go to, as it was already far negative and was saturated to receive more negative electrons. Thus the strike found its way to another place which was more positive charged and could still accept negative electrons.
But it would be a major problem if the farmer would get a discharge from earth to cloud. It would go via his unit and blow not only the ioniser, but also the electronic energiser for his catle electric fencing.

Who has ever seen such a unit special made for yachts?

Bert

[gonzo]

If you charge the mast at 200KV, it will probably destroy all the electronics onboard. Antennae, wind instruments, etc. are all installed at the mast top.

[PAR]

Your farmer friend has just been lucky, in spite of his ionisor. Look up the research that NASA has preformed on lightening prevention, as they have done more of it then anyone else. Diversion and dissipation is the name of the game, not inoisors.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by gonzo

If you charge the mast at 200KV, it will probably destroy all the electronics onboard. Antennae, wind instruments, etc. are all installed at the mast top.

Good point. Although the current would only be only micro or nano Amps and is DC static, you are right that it most likely it will influence the electronics and sensors. The ball would be isolated from the mast.
Bert

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by PAR

Your farmer friend has just been lucky, in spite of his ioniser. Look up the research that NASA has preformed on lightening prevention, as they have done more of it then anyone else. Diversion and dissipation is the name of the game, not inoisors.

Absolute correct that lightning should be diverted and re-routed to earth. With absorption and dissipation only when the energy is drastically reduced. i.e. Varistors, Arrestors, TAZ's, and other products can only be used for the absorption of a fraction of the energy discharged by a lightning strike.

But I just wanted to know whether it would be an option for a yacht. No actual research has been done and the farmer is just not lucky. His electric fence was curved over a hill and it became a convenient point of entry for the lightning strikes. The ioniser did help him, but on a boat, there is too much sensitive electronics and only with experiments, it could be confirmed as an option or as a total disaster.
Bert

[Bglad]

This fellow has done quite a lot of research on the subject of your interest: http://www.marinelightning.com/consulting.htm

[CatBuilder]

The ionizer cannot work. The farmer is just lucky. PAR nailed this one.

You have to direct the lightning to the sea and/or seabed in a controlled fashion. Nothing you can do will prevent your boat from a strike in the first place. It's just random chance.

[PAR]

Regardless of the number of tickets you buy, even if they are sequentially numbered, your odds remain the same at winning the lottery. This is the definition of random chance. The best you can provide within reasonable budgets and physical limitations, is a protective envelop, offered by a well grounded rod mounted above the yacht. The protection cone easy to establish and identify, plus no praying is necessary. This will not keep you from the random chance, but will keep you alive, abet with some damage, like burned cables, connections, attachments, etc. Having survived more then one lightening strike aboard a yacht and being here to discuss this can attest sufficiently, to the value of a well placed and ground rod.

[CDK]

I see two reasons why it cannot do much good.

One you already mentioned: there is a positive charge for every negative one and you have no way to predict which one will pass overhead. The wrong potential might encourage discharge instead of preventing it.

The other is the order of magnitude.
Lightning potentials are huge, many million volts, otherwise the discharge couldn't bridge the cloud to ground distance. A feeble 200 kV won't make a difference.
A large metal ball on top of the mast, connected to a Tesla transformer generating 10 million volts or more might work, but I doubt anybody wants such a monstrum aboard his boat.

[PAR]

Well, maybe not anybody . . .

[CatBuilder]

Exactly what I said, but using more words.

Hey Par, any thoughts on terminating the grounding rod on a catamaran? It's a bit not challenging when your mast ends at about waist level up on the bridgedeck.

Originally Posted by PAR

Regardless of the number of tickets you buy, even if they are sequentially numbered, your odds remain the same at winning the lottery. This is the definition of random chance. The best you can provide within reasonable budgets and physical limitations, is a protective envelop, offered by a well grounded rod mounted above the yacht. The protection cone easy to establish and identify, plus no praying is necessary. This will not keep you from the random chance, but will keep you alive, abet with some damage, like burned cables, connections, attachments, etc. Having survived more then one lightening strike aboard a yacht and being here to discuss this can attest sufficiently, to the value of a well placed and ground rod.

[CatBuilder]

(should say more challenging)

[PAR]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

. . . Exactly what I said, but using more words. . . .

I take long craps too . . .

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

. . . Hey Par, any thoughts on terminating the grounding rod on a catamaran? . . .

Drag a double ot cable in the water, off your mast step? Double ot lower gudgeons?

[nrg]

On "the hook" it quickly becomes apparent who's boat is loved by lightning. While most boats live a lifetime with out ever being hit, I recommend sinking your boat the first time you think it may be "attractive" because lightning does strike twice once the path has been established.

[PAR]

NRG, welcome to the forum. 15 posts in one sitting? Random chance is random chance, no matter how many lotto tickets you buy. The same is true for lightening. I'm sure the same mast has been hit more then once in the same storm, but the odds are even higher then the first hit. Being in a place where 20,000 strikes a hour happen regularly, in the summer months, I'm over due again, in spite of having been aboard twice during a strike already.