Ioniser on top of the mast

[CatBuilder]

Originally Posted by PAR

Drag a double ot cable in the water, off your mast step? Double ot lower gudgeons?

Yeah, I had thought about some of that too. I was hoping for a system that doesn't need to be deployed. 00 cable from the mast step is the most simple and what I had thought about, but I have to remember to put it out.

I don't have gudgeons - balanced spade rudder with shaft going through cassettes. I also have no backstay, so there isn't a good path close by.

I really have to do a take off from the mast step, I think, for most reliable results with minimal side flashes.

[CDK]

Originally Posted by nrg

On "the hook" it quickly becomes apparent who's boat is loved by lightning. While most boats live a lifetime with out ever being hit, I recommend sinking your boat the first time you think it may be "attractive" because lightning does strike twice once the path has been established.

Maybe it depends on the person, not the boat.
Most people live their lives without ever been hit by lighting, but also never win a major lottery prize. The chances of both are roughly the same.

Winning the jackpot twice seems almost impossible to me, having all but one of the lottery numbers right happens quite often. Just like seeing lightning strike quite near you.....

[BertKu]

Well, well, well. From the responses I can see that none of you have taken part in lightning research projects. I have a total different view on the subject. I have a highly respect for lightning and I have with great interest read in the past few days, all the NASA research and information as proposed by PAR. PAR, very interesting information.

We here in South Africa have only come across maximum 50.000 ampere bursts, while with great interest I read that there are even up to 200.000 Ampere discharges somewhere else. But what I missed in all the articles is the fact we found that the discharges is a series of discharge bursts of up to 40 or 50 shockwaves, within one lightning strike of 2 seconds. But haven’t read that information somewhere else.

Sorry folks, that I have a different opinion. I believe that a lightning strike can be re-routed by having a negative potential at the top of the yacht mast. Not necessarily a few megavolts, but a few kilovolt should be sufficient. The reason why I say so is the fact that a local farmer here, where I am now living, had the plus and the minus swapped on his cattle electric fence. The positive gives a spike of approx 12.000 Volt and the negative swing goes to approx 1000 Volt. What happened was that the wrongly plus 12.000 volt was a nice easier path for the lightning strikes and by making this mistake, he collected many more strikes than other farmers. By putting his mistake right, he did not have so many direct strikes anymore.
This let me believe that a potential of minus 40.000 to 200.000 Volt could make a difference of re-directing the strikes 10 or 20 meters away from the yacht or facing a direct hit. It is just a personal opinion, because of the research we have done.
I just came back a few hours ago from the boat show in Cape Town and have been chatting to people about the DC static at the top of the mast and we all agree, that it would not interfere with the incoming/outgoing radio signals nor with the wind strength vane, as it produces some AC voltage I understood. I have here an 20 KV ioniser, which I made for my daughter for an allergy and have been touching my TV screens and laptops (not direct on a conductive material) and it had no influence whatsoever. However it could make a hell of a difference to collect a direct lightning hit or a to re-route the strike a few meters further from the boat.
Just a personal opinion folks.
I always thought that Dark Africa came from something. (just a joke) Here is the proof. (NASA info)

Doc2.pdf

[CatBuilder]

Right, Bert, but that takes energy to maintain the charge. Energy is in short supply on boats so you are better off using a conductor to route a possible strike to the water/seabed as directly as possible.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Right, Bert, but that takes energy to maintain the charge. Energy is in short supply on boats so you are better off using a conductor to route a possible strike to the water/seabed as directly as possible.

It is a static energy and one uses only milliwatts to one or 2 watts in energy. In anyway, I would have both, a conductor and a high negative metal ball (isolated from the top of the conductor and mast, with a glass construction). Just my view. whether one day somebody will bring it on the market, who knows? Maybe nobody has never thought about it and it certainly needs a lot more research and tests done. I just read about a new ball engine, only 62 parts, instead of 240 with a normal engine. So, why didn't we thought about it during the T Ford engine in 1904?
Bert

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by CatBuilder

Right, Bert, but that takes energy to maintain the charge. Energy is in short supply on boats so you are better off using a conductor to route a possible strike to the water/seabed as directly as possible.

Just an extra note. Even if it would take some energy (which it does not) , you would only switch it on, when there is electrostatic activity in the air.
Bert

[powerabout]

living in Singapore and sailing these parts where lightning hits the ground all the time and many many boats
One thing I have learnt is there are no rules seen all the witchcraft mods and seen all the failures, seen it go down the keel stepped mast and out through the hull punching 6 holes as big as your fist
seen it go down the anchor chain and fry it
seen it go down the shrouds and exit via the chain plate to bulkhead bolts to outside
Talked to crew who have had direct hit whilst they were in cockpit leaning on rail ( just go ta few tingles)
Many times I have been the 'hit me hit me' when lightning is looking for something to hit whilst making the earth either standing on the wet dock holding the rail or carrying a beachcat up the ramp holding the rear beam.
You get a shock like holding a spark plug then the lightning hits something else
For several years a crusing maxi in Port Klang had a 110 ' stick way higher then most was never hit or even suffered a failure when boats beside it had direct hits.

B&G wind gear attracts lightning like a magnet and destroys itself even when the lightning hit some distance away.

Was anchored once behind a big yacht that had a direct hit on the tv dish and the depth sounder on the tender on the aft deck of our boat blew up along with vessel fire alarm ( although that is normal)

Seen direct hit that blew up all electronics in boat and ones where it didnt

Seen it hit the lowest coconut tree 2m from the side of the club restaurant building that had one of those spikes 5m higher on the roof as per Singapore building reg.
Not seen or heard of it hitting a cat yet?

Theory of Lightning ..book not written yet

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by powerabout

living in Singapore and sailing these parts where lightning hits the ground all the time and many many boats


Theory of Lightning ..book not written yet

Hi Powerabout,

Absolute correct in what you have written. The energy from lightning is unbelievable large. What we are wondering about is, can we hold the lightning strike away from a yacht by making life missarable for the negative electrons to discharge on your boat. A ligthning strike is feeling its way down to earth and try to follow the lowest resistance route. Therefore it is unpredictable where it will hit the ground/mast/tree.

We are asking ourselves off, if the top of a mast has a very negative potential, i.e. you make life for the negative electrons difficult to come to your boat:

a) will it strike 2 meters from your boat in the water? In that case all effort is useless in making a far negative potential at the top of the mast.

b) it will strike 50 - 100 meters away, which in that case, this idee should be further explored and more test done.

c) It would not give a damn about the very negative potential at the top and would strike your boat in anyway.

C) is very unlikely, as this goes against all electron theory.
B) would be ideal
A) it would be wors than a direct hit, as it does not develop a cone, which protects you to a certain extent.

Bert

[powerabout]

how do you generate a few million volts to fight the lightning off

What about the lightning goes up or down or both?

questions questions and more questions

[CDK]

Originally Posted by powerabout

how do you generate a few million volts to fight the lightning off

With an (1) ignition coil, a (2) glass capacitor and a (3) Tesla transformer.

(3) must be installed on top of the mast because there are no cables for this kind of voltages. It will make the mast 2 ft taller and you need to make a sign explaining its function, otherwise you have to explain over and over again it is not experimental radar, a designer anemometer or a time capsule.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by powerabout

how do you generate a few million volts to fight the lightning off

What about the lightning goes up or down or both?

questions questions and more questions

That was explained in an earlier reply. Only approx 5% is from earth to cloud. i.e. if the friction of the clouds has created a positive nucleus with a shortage of negative electrons around this nucleus.
But it will be very unlikely that if you see lots of strikes from cloud to earth , that you suddenly will get a strike from earth to cloud and then from your boat to the cloud on top of it.
Bert

[PAR]

If only it was so easy . . .

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by PAR

If only it was so easy . . .

Hi PAR,
One thing I know for sure, that a negative potential at the top of the mast WILL influence the lightning path. What we don't know, is it by 1 to 2 meter or quite a distance. I don't have access to the equipment anymore to do tests. We did those lightning tests some 30 years ago for the postoffice to get our orders and local production for lightning arrestors and varistors.
bert