Invention Advice

[gonzo]

That is correct. Only new technology or industrial designs can be patented.

[RonL]

Well, first I must apologize for sounding negative, in my post above.

I do have great concern about how and why some patents get awarded, two or three years ago, I remember seeing some company get a patent on a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, now I have been making those for over 60 years.
I guess it had to be some technique in the process.

Years ago I had a patent rejected, based on a non-related patent in 1890 ?? A hydraulic design (mine) compared to a compressed air maker on a locomotive wheel. I did not have finances or knowledge enough to continue.

A few other things have left me a bit discouraged, in relation of protecting intellectual property rights, for most things it is my lack of being able to convey my thinking into logical and clear statements.

I have two things I am willing to try and share (in a different thread) if anyone is open to "yet another attempt".

Ron

[Pierre R]

I am a little late to the party here but I do make my living as an inventor.

Basically the patent process is about how hungry you are. Basically nobody wants your ivention until it is a proven money maker.

The process is also much more brutal if you want any foreign patents. There is a whole bunch of patent countries grouped together that are cheap and a few (the one's most likely to steal) that are very expensive. North of $5k today. The problem with incuding foreign patents is that you cannot show without non disclosure nor make one dime from your invention until the patent is actually filed. Once filed you cannot make changes.

The problem becomes one of making a prototype and then seeking out all the possible ancillary ideas and possibilities around the invention. That means thorough testing and probing for weaknesses and improvements. That takes time and money. In my case I practically have to manufacture all the tests and machinery mods around the inventions. It takes me up to 5 years before I file to include the ancillaries and debug the system to the point of having a good patent a marketable product and a manufacturing method. At that point the patent is easy cuz you have debugged everything and know just what it is that is unique and unobvious about your invention.

More important though is to find out if you have re-invented the wheel as your patent is only as good as the challenge. That is the toughest part for most as they have a cushy uphoric feeling about their invention and have their head in the sand on finding the truth.

Finally your invention becomes worth a lot more if you already have set up for manufacturing and have your raw materials secure with a few customers. If you are willing to cut overhead to the bone and live like a pauper then you are enough of a problem to buy you instead of steal you.

[larry larisky]

Originally Posted by Stumble

I have tried to stay away, but the amazingly bad advice on the patent issue here is forcing me to jump in.

First a patent if drawn correctly is actually pretty easy to defend. The trick, like with most legal issues is to do the initial work correctly, then the rest of it is pretty simple. By this I mean hire a patent attorney with a good reputation to file the initial paperwork. Yes it will cost a few thousand dollars, but that is not much compared to the cost of comercializing even a very chap product.

So how do you know if your attorney is a 'good' patent attorney? First ask what his undergraduate degree is in. These days most patent attorneys have technical degrees in the area they work in. So for an invention involving a boat, while you may not be able to find someone who is a Naval Architect, at least find someone who is civil engineer, structual engineer, perhaps an Architect. Either way you want an attorney that has a technical background in the area that the invention is in. Secondly do an internet search for him, and the firm he works for to find any potential ethical violations, and find out if they have been involved in any large cases.

Secondly. Find an Angel Funds manager. These are people who specialize in finding initial start up money to bring new ideas to market. They should be willing to speak with you without any money outlay from your part. They will also have all of the confidentiality paperwork that you need. Since these people specialize in exacally this type of work, they have been through it before. Make sure thet they sign on as your agent, making them liabel to some degree if your idea gets released to the public. Note that Angel Funding and seeking Patent protection should probably be done simultaniously, since most of the people working in the field work together a lot.

Third, be realistic about what you expect to make out of a deal like this. Depending on the startup costs and production costs you may be looking for millions of dollars of peoples money to invest in an unproven, unmarketable idea. The investors know this as well, but are willing to take the risk in order to reap huge rewards if the idea takes off. Every situation is different, but expect that the investors will take a total of anywhere from 49-90% ownership of the company. Usually for something along the line of 1 year of operating budget including production of the first few commercial products (depending on the cost of the item this could be anywhere from 1 to a few thousand).

Of course every startup is different, and someone with a proven track record will get a better deal. A working proto-type will get a better deal, proven scientific evidence of sutability better yet. Figure an minium of a few thousand dollars initially plus the cost of a working prototype out of your pocket as a minimum costs.

you are a professional in this area. i will gave you my business if i invented something.
thank you for your insight.

[zipboater]

Regarding the patent process in the US, if you are willing and able to do the footwork yourself there is a book out there on the market that has been around for some time titled, Patent It Yourself by author David Pressman (a patent attorney). It is published by Nolo Press. It is fairly comprehensive and takes the inventor/ applicant through the process of executing and filing a utility patent. I have used the book to save thousands of dollars in out of pocket attorney fees. The book runs around $60 and is updated every two years. Sound good? The catch is, it takes a good bit of work to file a utility patent no matter who does it.

[larry larisky]

Originally Posted by zipboater

Regarding the patent process in the US, if you are willing and able to do the footwork yourself there is a book out there on the market that has been around for some time titled, Patent It Yourself by author David Pressman (a patent attorney). It is published by Nolo Press. It is fairly comprehensive and takes the inventor/ applicant through the process of executing and filing a utility patent. I have used the book to save thousands of dollars in out of pocket attorney fees. The book runs around $60 and is updated every two years. Sound good? The catch is, it takes a good bit of work to file a utility patent no matter who does it.

the catch is you spend $60 for nothing.
the only patented idiot is the one buying this kind of book.

[aranda1984]

I am sorry Marco1., you are absolutely right.

You can only patent widgets, gadgets and gizmos... (which in the early stages are only ideas!)

However, if somebody makes them widgets, gadgets and gizmos about 10% different, they just got away with your idea scott free!
And no judge will award you any compensation.

I still don't believe in patents, unless it is so earth shaking and revolutionary as "cold fusion" would have been!

In my post, I was trying to suggest how to bring an idea to reality, without money and a shop to make it!

Regards,

Stephen

[SheetWise]

Originally Posted by Marco1

Just to clarify on what many have posted here, a patent does not protect an idea. In fact ideas can not be patented at all.

This was not true last year, and is maybe true this year. The legal eagles haven't yet determined how State Street and Bilski are to be interpreted. The smart money seems to be on Bilski, but there's a bit of gray area in the decision. In re Bilski.

[zipboater]

Originally Posted by larry larisky

the catch is you spend $60 for nothing.
the only patented idiot is the one buying this kind of book.

Gee Larry, you must be a patent attorney. I have used the book with success. Guess I'm a lucky patented idiot.

[variverrunner]

Bahama,

Have you checked out the US Patent Office website?

You can find it at uspto.gov In my experience there are a lot of Patent attorney's that will sit down and give you preliminary advice for free.

The site does a good job of explaining the process.

I think one of the things that has made the US a great country is "Our Yankee" ingenuity and inventiveness. Sure the patent process isn't perfect, but does anyone have a better idea. Many of us are guilty of sitting back in our armchairs and complaining without doing a single stitch about improving things. To a large extent we have become a nation of winers and not doers.

Bahama, Best of luck with your idea.

Larry, Your comment about someone paying $60 for a book would make them a "patented idiot" strikes me as more than negative and a bit odd.

Allan