DIY batteries / lead ballast as a battery

[pistnbroke]

Frosty I Love you ...you have real style

There have been no design changes of significance in lead acid batteries for 40 years so I think my knowledge will be well up to date ...

Dont get upset moderator just a few old farts poking each other in the eye at the old folks home .....

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by pistnbroke

Frosty I Love you ...you have real style

There have been no design changes of significance in lead acid batteries for 40 years so I think my knowledge will be well up to date ...

Dont get upset moderator just a few old farts poking each other in the eye at the old folks home .....

Dont listen to old people. When they die they take all there knowledge with them and leave you to live in ignorance.....

Pistnbroke, before I die, can I give you some knowledge. There are many very practical improvements over the last 40 years. per example Sealed lead acid batteries. They have done wonders for me. All that liquid spilling when opening up the vents. SLABS you can mount upside down. The spiral plate construction. Lead Acid Zinc batteries and I can list a handful of improvements and technical advancements.
Can I pick your brains and have your views on the gadget "Puls-R 12 V battery conditioner" It sells in England for +/- 86 Pounds.
It claims to make your battery lasting to up to 3 x longer and up to 340 % life capacity, according to their independent outside company check.
www.puls-r.com
I do believe it cannot be a fraud, there must be some merit in it, what they are claiming.
Bert

[Seafarer24]

If I could maintain a fair amount of storage in a ballast-battery for 5 years... that is entirely acceptable.

If I could create it with 40-year old technology... that, too, is entirely acceptable.

If I have to replace it every 5 years... that is also acceptable. I'm pretty sure I can have a spare ready to go and can design it to be a removable keel.

It is for a micro cruising project- a 16' sea-going sailboat. I figured that if the ballast-battery failed I could always get a couple of normal batteries and find a place for them. Or just do without.

Does anyone know of some tall and skinny sealed batteries that could fit into a fairly narrow keel cavity? That is a viable alternative.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Seafarer24

If I could maintain a fair amount of storage in a ballast-battery for 5 years... that is entirely acceptable.

If I could create it with 40-year old technology... that, too, is entirely acceptable.

If I have to replace it every 5 years... that is also acceptable. I'm pretty sure I can have a spare ready to go and can design it to be a removable keel.

It is for a micro cruising project- a 16' sea-going sailboat. I figured that if the ballast-battery failed I could always get a couple of normal batteries and find a place for them. Or just do without.

Does anyone know of some tall and skinny sealed batteries that could fit into a fairly narrow keel cavity? That is a viable alternative.

There are a couple of problems attached to such a system. You will not get a clearance certificate, due to the fact that you need to ventilate a lead acid battery. Even if you would construct a Sealed lead acid battery. It will be very difficult to make it in such a way that never you will get a leak. If you make a liquid battery, you need to be able to top it up at some time. If you really like to go for having the batteries in the keel, make the keel from 1 mm thicker mild steel than calculated. Make it hollow and make a system, whereby you can sink deep charging lead acid batteries in them type RT12240EV .

I would suggest, make your keel a little deeper and put just normal lead at the bottom. Have 10 sealed lead acid batteries connected parallel via Schottky diodes type 40 Ampere (2 x 20 casing) . The battery type I would use is the RT12240EV You can mount them upside down, sideways,normal, place them in a waterproof plastic box with a rubber pipe coming out for ventilation, in the bilge. You would have 240 Amphour at 12 Volt deepcharging. The battery each, size is 19 cm x 7,5 cm x 12 cm Bert

P.S. weight is only 7 Kg per battery. 10 batteries = 70 Kg space = 1,7 liter x 10 = 17 liter. Make a sealed cover at the top of the hollow keel and place a rubber ventilating pipe to a position, the surveyor is happy with.

[pistnbroke]

Pulse R battery conditoner
BertKu ..first you insult me Quote often wrong, very rude....then you ask my opinion.....so I have given it 5 second of my remaining time on this earth,
First the batteries tested must be of the 5 AH size as they discharge at 2A in 46 min.
Second a discharge to 10.5v is a full discharge and we all know 50% is best.
The effect of the pulses from this device on a small battery used in this way may be more noticable than on a 100AH battery
So I think its been rigged to give "good" looking results
http://www.lead-acid-battery-mainten...2V_English.pdf

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by pistnbroke

Pulse R battery conditoner
BertKu ..first you insult me Quote often wrong, very rude....then you ask my opinion.....so I have given it 5 second of my remaining time on this earth,
First the batteries tested must be of the 5 AH size as they discharge at 2A in 46 min.
Second a discharge to 10.5v is a full discharge and we all know 50% is best.
The effect of the pulses from this device on a small battery used in this way may be more noticable than on a 100AH battery
So I think its been rigged to give "good" looking results
http://www.lead-acid-battery-mainten...2V_English.pdf

Thanks Pistnbroke, it conform thus, other forum members opinion. Thank you.

I apologised!, but could not resist. Now you know how it feels if one gets insults throw at them. I hope in future that we both are more polite and not so rude anymore. I still think you are a very knowledgable person.
Bert

[Milehog]

When seawater gets into lead acid batterys deadly chlorine gas is produced. Think twice before installing them in the bilge or keel.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Milehog

When seawater gets into lead acid batterys deadly chlorine gas is produced. Think twice before installing them in the bilge or keel.

Is that for Sealed Lead Acid Batteries also applicable?. I assumed, that if one uses SLAB's That the risk is absolute minimal, special if one will try to mount the batteries in the bilge in a type of waterproof container, with ventilation via a rubber pipe to the surface, away from sleeping quarters and living quarters.
bert

[Milehog]

Some so called SLABs have a one way valve to release pressure buildup. I 'spose the question would be how much trust do you have in their integrity.

[souljour2000]

Originally Posted by Milehog

Some so called SLABs have a one way valve to release pressure buildup. I 'spose the question would be how much trust do you have in their integrity.

Just slide down to Home depot or Lowe's and pick up one of their " Ye Olde Chlorine Gas detectors"...I believe Acme also makes them...they're likely to be in the smoke detector/CO detector aisle....or just ask a friendly "customer service agent" who will no doubt be lingering like chlorine gas.. nearby...and ready to help...

[Milehog]

The chlorine dector is a good start.
When batteries outgas they emit other nasty stuff besides hydrogen. One of the dangers is that battery emissions paralyze the olfactory nerve, after a short time you can't smell anything and don't know you are sitting in a cloud of the stuff.
I work around heavy machinery that have large battery banks and several co-workers lives have been ruined by battery gasses so I'm leary of them.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by souljour2000

Just slide down to Home depot or Lowe's and pick up one of their " Ye Olde Chlorine Gas detectors"...I believe Acme also makes them...they're likely to be in the smoke detector/CO detector aisle....or just ask a friendly "customer service agent" who will no doubt be lingering like chlorine gas.. nearby...and ready to help...

I think it will be much easier to avoid seawater from coming into contact with the acid of the lead battery, then to have a sensor with wires and what then? Have a bell ringing? I think it is much easier to follow some advice in one of the other threads and make a watertight box with ventilation to the outside of the boot. Avoiding is normally easier than curing. Have a look at that fire in the USA. So is it also with the lead acid bateries ballast in the keel. Seal it properly, make a second "firewall" just in case and ventilate to the outside of the boat. Worried that if the boat rolls, seawater goes into the rubber pipe? put a one way valve with a ball, which closes when under water. The few drops which may leak in, one can disregard that. Bert

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Milehog

The chlorine dector is a good start.
When batteries outgas they emit other nasty stuff besides hydrogen. One of the dangers is that battery emissions paralyze the olfactory nerve, after a short time you can't smell anything and don't know you are sitting in a cloud of the stuff.
I work around heavy machinery that have large battery banks and several co-workers lives have been ruined by battery gasses so I'm leary of them.

Point well taken. The question one must ask, if seawater gets into the keel and he has made double sure, there is a second "firewall" and he uses Sealed Lead Acid deep charging batteries, with a 10 year lifetime, what is his chance that he really runs into a situation as described by you. Special if he is at sea and wind will blow any gasses away, spit out via the rubber pipe? If he is in the harbour, what is his chance that he will release gasses as explained by you. I think very low. Otherwise, one cannot go onto the sea with any kind of boat, incase a whale hits you, incase you get run over by a freighter or oiltanker. Sure we should be able to take some calculated risks?
Bert

[Milehog]

As always, risk management is achieved through good design, sound construction and regular maintainence. Lacking that booze and testosterone can carry the day...
I see West Marine offers a gel battery that is advertised as completely sealed and said to be immersable without leaking.

[BertKu]

Originally Posted by Milehog

As always, risk management is achieved through good design, sound construction and regular maintainence. Lacking that booze and testosterone can carry the day...
I see West Marine offers a gel battery that is advertised as completely sealed and said to be immersable without leaking.

True.
If I was him, I would first design and make a frame where the batteries can be mounted in and have it logical connected. Thereafter design and build a keel around it.


All SLAB's, gels have a valve as far as I know. It opens up, if the battery is fully charged and the 14,4 Volt keeps on overcharging, the valve will open up and releases the gas. I have my doubt that the advertised particular gel battery will not have a valve. I have submerged my batteries often under water, rain water, for the last 15 years. It will be different with sea water. If I was him I would constant voltage charge at maximum 13,7 Volt. It takes 20% longer charging, so what. One does not get gassing nor opens the valve. Bert