Discussion- Multi-purpose Onboard Computers

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by TerryKing, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. thekl0wn
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: PoCo, IN

    thekl0wn I'm Afraid of Water!

    Another thought on the screen... If you're going with a touch screen, then you should be able to control the "Power Saving" from Windows, as in the display settings, and have it turn the monitor off after 10 minutes of idle time. This should be able to be achieved programmatically as well. The nice thing here is that with it being a touch screen, one tap brings it back. Only issue is that the program running would need its own timer set to the same time, so that the "bring back tap" wouldn't act as a mouse click... Especially, when the monitor goes to sleep with buttons such as "Fire Nuclear Scud Missiles" on the screen.

    On the topic of the display as well, if you're building the console around the display, I'm guessing you're planning on removing the LCD's OEM panel as well? If so, then you're already half way in, and every panel I've seen has a separate board for the power supply. So, if you have your own regulated power source which you would like to use on the monitor, then it should be as simple as a two wire connection... The issue is often the backlight though. They tend to require something like a regulated 1100V DC supply. However, Maxim (TI branch) makes a small chip that set up in the correct circuit is designed for this exact purpose.

    Another power-saving option straight out of Windows, is the "Turn off hard disks" option. I know these are small savers, but if it's a system that will be readily accessible for a long duration, then they should add up. Keeping the drive defragmented, will also help on the read/write time. Heavy-duty heatsinks on just about everything will actually help by making everything run cooler, and if your fans are controlled by the MoBo, then they won't kick up as often... With you being on the water, possibly water-cooling? If not using water to run directly through the system, possibly some form of exchange manifold? (sea water tank, with the cooling system water running through a jacket for heat exchange) I'm not thinking that the processing power is going to be used/needed here, that would require such an extensive cooling system, but it's a thought. Plus, you'd be exchanging fan(s) for a pump.
     
  2. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    I have only one concern with a big central control unit or PC... while it's working fine when it works fine is ok. Problem is if the rat aboard chews through a wire the GPS doesn't work, the anchor cannot be lifted, the comms are down, tin opener doesn't work, all lights are off, the sails cannot be operated, you don't know where north or south is, you are not reminded to take your vitamins on time.

    In SA we have power-out frequently. Amazing how little you can do without power.
     
  3. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    My question is Why build a boat and go to sea?

    What seems to be proposed could be more pleasant at home in a simulator?
     
  4. thekl0wn
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    thekl0wn I'm Afraid of Water!

    I always thought the purpose of buying a boat was to spend money on unnecessary issues? How is this different? :D
     
  5. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "Sick Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    You cannot catch fish in a simylator :eek: otherwise I would have one already.

    Having the big system with all the bells and whistles would be great to show off with or to double the rig's resale value but haveing some kind of backup would let you sleep at night. You can spend that extra now...

    Someone said a boat is a big hole in the water where you throw money in.
     
  6. thekl0wn
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: PoCo, IN

    thekl0wn I'm Afraid of Water!

    I would think, depending on how the actual end product is wired, that if the I/O board(s) are controlling relays, that it wouldn't be an issue to go ahead and wire in another relay alongside, with manual switches to all the vital parts, like say the anchor, possibly ignition, etc....
     
  7. Tim B
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    Ok, a few points to pick up...

    First, I'm sorry I haven't been more active, but work has been crazy. However...

    I have picked up an old 486 motherboard that I had lying around, and have managed to get it running off +12 & +5 volts. I've also managed to install damn small linux on it and it works really well. For reference this is a 486 DX4 100MHz 32MB Ram, 1.6GB Hdd. so significantly LESS capable than a standard single-board computer. I have also got the USB-network adapter working, and it does web-browsing quite well.... sorry, I digress.

    Touchscreens:
    Brilliant idea. Well done that man. but PLEASE don't have a power-off setting unless you intend to use it "indoors" with some obvious standby light. If using at the helm for nav, there's nothing more irritating than the display switching off because it thought you weren't using it.

    Software and Languages:
    Go with C++, it's perfect for what we're trying to achieve here. Also, consider using QT4, the major advantage is that it's portable between platforms (particularly Win/Linux). It is also (reasonably) quick. Perhaps we can put together some software (even just current GPS location, temperature, batt voltage on different tabs) just to get a feel for this. It would be very useful if we all developed in the same system. Which QT4 being a free download allows.

    Licensing:
    Hardware - We will probably have fairly disparate solutions, so probably not too much hassle. All comms protocols are standard anyway.
    Software - GNU GPL v 3 ? means we can use QT4 for free.

    Ok, well this is starting to sound quite attractive, so When I re-do my website (which will be in about a fortnight) I'll give it some web-space. It might also be a good idea to consider starting a mailing list, or using sourceforge for management.

    If anyone has any objection to me using any text or pictures presented on this thread (with references and links, of course), please contact me by private message or e-mail.

    Cheers All,

    Tim B.
     
  8. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    Tim, Just the person needed, so long as the win-centric people are happy as I feel the Linux community more likely to participate actively.

    May I suggest using gpsdrive as the borrowed form, it works and it seems further developed than many others, and is close to a concept presented here:- http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20202

    Regards
     
  9. Tim B
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    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    Yes, I quite agree, it is definitely a good bit of code.

    I'm still of the opinion that the hard bit about the NAV is not the calculation, but the display.

    You have to handle a few main data types:
    Track (direct GPS formats)
    Waypoints
    Coastline (gshhs)
    Chart (Proprietry bitmaps of some form)
    ESRI/OpenStreetmap (for multimodal operation)

    so it's not really too hard to do. I'm trying to get around to writing a basic NAV package which will take real-time data from GPS and handle gshhs data.

    Meanwhile, have a look at the attached images.

    Yes, I know it seems funny to upload the Win32 version when this was developed on Linux, but I don't want to release the source for this version (because the next version will be better). E-mail me if you really want the source.

    Tim B.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. masalai
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    masalai masalai

    That is why I suggested starting from gpsdrive, it is small, compact and efficient (should fit and operate happily on your home-made).

    All those points are done in gpsdrive, even to importing a variety of map formats. :) rtfm ;) it is in *.pdf I think?.
     
  11. Ratch
    Joined: Feb 2008
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    Location: Sydney

    Ratch Junior Member

    Hi everyone this is my first post and liked the thread so thought I would contribute ;) . I know almost nothing about boats allthough I am hoping to build a steel boat to live on (lifestyle change). An important issue for me was my pc (games). Seeing as how I could not be without my pc I have given this a lot of thought and have come up with some ideas you might find interesting.

    Problems:
    Power consumption: My PC uses enough power to run a small village :rolleyes:
    Corrosion: For the privilege of using so much power there are some very expensive bits I don't want to lose.
    Shock: see corrosion.
    Cooling: a side effect of using power is the need to dump heat.

    I think I have solved corrosion shock and cooling by submerging the pc in mineral oil. I am planning on welding up a box on the hull to house the PC and heat exchange through the oil, case and hull this should easy take care of the heat. This would also make it immune to salt air and very shock resistant. Upgrading would be messy and you cannot have the dvd or hdd in the tank.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtufuXLvOok

    Power consumption is the other worry. My plan was to have a 24vdc system in the boat anyhow due to voltage drop and the associated power loss not to mention the cost of cable. So there is my plus and minus 12v rail with using +12v as ground with no efficiency losses the plus 5v will be a switch mode power supply running between the 12v tap and 24v. Now there are a few problems I have not ironed out like the minus 5v has to reference to 12v tap (ground for the pc) not ground (-12v for the pc) otherwise I would get 8v also protection from over voltage when the alternator runs (was thinking a zenner diode). Another problem is interfacing things to the pc using a common ground that you will not have as ground at the pc is +12vdc everywhere else.
     
  12. Tim B
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    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    Ratch,

    This subject has been covered in some detail previously, but not, perhaps for your specific problem. We have generally been looking at running a relatively low-end PC (well, upto a 2.4GHz P4 perhaps). These generally have the advantage of lowish power and more importantly, relatively small disks.

    Since you intend to live-aboard, I would expect you to have a 240V (or 120V or whatever) AC supply available, but there's nothing to stop you running a 12/24V ATX power supply (which is the easiest way to power the PC if not on 240/120VAC).

    Corrosion is an issue, but if you can mount it in a sealed case you should be ok.

    Shock - kills HDDs almost instantly. See if you can get the OS (presumably Windows) to run from a media card (or USB pen) of some sort.
    eg
    http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad44midecf.asp

    Your data can then be on an external USB pen/drive. Hopefully this makes the important bits solid-state. I suspect an external USB DVD Drive would serve for the normal functions. These are so cheap that I would just mount it next to your screen and replace it if you have any problems.

    Cooling - Watercooling is the most obvious option (it also allows for a smaller case) after all, there is plenty of water around.

    Power consumption is going to be dependant on a lot of things, but which CPU you use will have a notable effect. It's worth measuring the current drawn in a few states, just so you know.

    On-board Nav. Software is being developed at http://openpilot.sourceforge.net let me know if you want to add a hardware section.

    Hope this helps,

    Tim B.
     
  13. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: cruising, Australia

    masalai masalai

    Ratch,
    Many yachts use notebooks, because of the LOW power consideration is built in and the prices are quite reasonable.... CPU's took quite a learning curve ($$$) for me as I currently have an intel, which is hot, and noisy (fan running constantly), so I am searching for a mini ITX mother board (as per notebook size) with an AMD Turion 64 x2 mobile technology.

    My previoys notebook a beautiful 15.4" (WITH A MATTE FINISH screen) had a Turion TL 60 and drew very little power for 2.2gHz performance with 2GBytes RAM and 100 GB HDD - It got stolen - so as a bighead I replaced it with a 17" (pain in the arse "crystal bright" highly reflective screen, making it useless in daylight or fluro-lit rooms) - I am an even bigger "bighead" in that I will now use an external 22" matte finish screen (all 1920x1200) and revert to AMD for reduced power consumption/better battery life:D BTW I run on Linux Mint which is an easy adjust away from win-xp or earlier...

    Most marinas have internet access for wireless equipped machines (and lots of hotels - at the cost of a coffee in the 'al-fresco area near the pool'? - but you may need to be a member of the marina ISP in Qld - still researching that.

    Best of luck
     
  14. BillyDoc
    Joined: May 2005
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    Location: Pensacola, Florida

    BillyDoc Senior Member

    CANbus

    Hi Everyone,

    What a fantastic discussion this is!

    By an odd coincidence I took a look at a BMW K1200GT motorcycle a couple of weeks ago . . . and a surprising feature it had was a CANbus system that is linked to just about everything on board. Even the turn signals and headlamp. I haven't checked it out, but I believe that this means that lots of engine monitoring modules must be available with CANbus interfaces which could prove useful here. This got my attention because in a couple of months I will be interfacing an embedded computer system with CANbus to control a bunch of motors for a project I am working on.

    I haven't got very deep into this subject yet, but my first pass through the problem makes me think that it may be relatively simple to implement a CANbus interface . . . namely because others have already done most of the hard work. Here are some links and downloads that may prove useful:

    A CANbus tutorial: http://www.computer-solutions.co.uk/info/Embedded_tutorials/can_tutorial.htm

    A design guide and data sheet:
     

    Attached Files:


  15. Tim B
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: Southern England

    Tim B Senior Member

    Billy,

    When you've got something working, I'd love it if you could include it in OpenPilot. That's the next major step (getting data into the system). The way the project is set up, you just add a directory (call it CANBus for instance) and write your C++ class to do all the necessary input/output and parsing.

    Cheers,

    Tim B.
     
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