Discussion- Multi-purpose Onboard Computers

[yipster]

as a side order slingshot tv perheaps?
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com....htm/printable

[charmc]

Thanks to forum member George, kach22i, who posted this originally in another thread. A new idea for a small and affordable renewable power generator: http://carnuts.us/viewtopic.php?p=22054#22054

video interview and demo here:
http://link.brightcove.com/services/...tid=1233395616

This seems to fit with the discussion here. Not enough information yet to compare vs a bladed turbine, but could be a low cost alternative power source for a boat.

[TerryKing]

OK, I'm back, after playing Boy Reporter for about a week.. All That Stuff is in the POWERBOATS section at: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/powerboats/ .
I had a good time talking to those serious 100 MPH boat maniacs, but I'd like to get back to our own stuff here. I have to say I had a great time with the Chinese people who were spectators. They were polite, helpful (trying to give me their seat in the stands when I was shooting photos), and enthusiastic about the boat racing, which must have been largely outside their personal experience.

And the Good News is that my STUFF arrived today! I'm fondling my Tektronix 2235 scope as we speak so now I can start doing real electronics.

Where I'm coming from is something like "The first pass isn't going to be right, and some parts will be plain wrong, but let's build the sucker and run it, and find out!". OK? So I'm about to build the Mini-ATX system I mentioned earlier, and work on some mysteries:

-- System cooling in a salt-air-proof box
-- 2.5" or 1.8" hard drives with some extra shock mounting
-- Powering from 12 volts
-- Cabling in and out of the "salt-air-proof" box
-- Human interface stuff:
- LCD Display
- Sea Water Proof Touch Switches
- Sea Water Proof "Mouse-like" controls
- Very visible alarm displays
-- OnBoard Systems Interfaces
- NMEA from instruments, sensors, engine monitors etc..
- GPS, Autopilot, etc.
-- CONTROL outputs for switches and load controls etc..

Well, that should be fun and keep us busy...

Anyone want in on a part of this?

How about the Hard Drive shockmounting thing?

Others??

OK, I need a couple days to unpack my gear and get the office/lab fixed up. Accounting for my chronic overoptimism and a long-suffering wife, make that 4 days

We should think of spinning out separate threads for some of these subjects. What do you think?

Originally Posted by TerryKing

I'm fondling my Tektronix 2235 scope as we speak

Conjures up an interesting image ....

-- 2.5" or 1.8" hard drives with some extra shock mounting

How about the Hard Drive shockmounting thing?

One of my most persistent memories from the 60's was the casing that a power output valve (same size as a goldfish bowl) for an RF Welder was delivered in. The valve was inside a mesh-net bag which was secured to an open-frame cube, which was in turn housed inside a much larger open-frame cube. There were six springs which secured each corner of the smaller cube to the corresponding corner of the larger cube. The valve arrived OK. No air-sprung delivery trucks in those days !

But - for a more practical means of shockmounting a hard-drive, checkout US Patents 5124855, 6292455, 6498722 and 6882528. I'm sure there are many more methods hidden away there if you can spare the time for an in-depth search.

- Sea Water Proof Touch Switches

Press-action membrane switches are often used in dirty environments, or if you want a sliding action, then a magnet/ reed switch would be another way to go.

We should think of spinning out separate threads for some of these subjects. What do you think?

Yes

Colin

Stumbled across the following this morning:

"Adjustable DC-DC Converter For Cars. Run your laptop in your car. Charge SLA batteries and run 24V equipment from a 12V battery."

[and therefore presumably continue to run 12v equipment from a moribund 12v battery ?]

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_30339/article.html


Haven't seen the full article - which has to be purchased - but might be worth a punt if it's a proven design ...

Colin

[TerryKing]

Hello Everyone,

OK, it's time for me/us to get going on this. I have working gear and shop space, and we've covered a LOT of ground in this thread.

I just read through it all, and I noticed that quite a few of my "Current Best Ideas" came from you people, or stuff you pointed to. Thanks for a lot of very interesting discussion. I hope you will continue to help sort this stuff out and add your ideas. And challenge mine...

Now I think it's time to branch this long thread out into separate ones with more detail. I'm thinking that the system diagram (below - just the earlier one redisplayed here) breaks out into these areas:

• Computer System Units, power and cooling
• Human Inputs and Human Outputs
• Monitoring and Controlling Onboard Systems
• Networks and Protocols - NMEA and other onboard networks
• Communications at a distance
• Software for NAV and Monitoring and Control
• Leisure Time and At-Anchor Activities

I have put up a drawing of what I think the helmsman might see with such a system. That will provoke a good discussion I hope...
It is CLICK HERE

Here's the initial content I'll put in these threads...

PLEASE don't think this is all right and all figured out! But I've found that if I don't try to put some anchor down, I keep floating around...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Computer System Units - power - cooling

CHALLENGES:

• POWER SUPPLIES: 12 Volt supply, with transients, starting etc.
• POWER CONSUMPTION: Computer System Unit: 15 watts or less
• COOLING: 'Cabin' Environment up to 100F, Salt Air
• SHOCK AND VIBRATION: System Board, Power supply, hard drive

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:

• System Board: Mini-ITX (7cm x 7cm) 1.2 GHz, 1GB RAM, 12 watts, fanless VIA EN12000EG
• Hard Drive: 1.8" notebook-type drive, 40 to 60 GB, 100G shock rating. Shock mount it.
• Very small 12V switching power supply provides ATX power voltages
• Transient-protected 12 power input, small 12V gelcell backup / protection.
• Mount in sealed, gasketed 'briefcase-like' aluminum box with thermal coupling from heatsink to box. Waterproof seal for cables (How??)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Human Inputs - Human Outputs

CHALLENGES:

• POWER CONSUMPTION: Large (15-19 inches?) LCD Display: 25-50 watts or less
• VISIBILITY: LCD display, and other lighted displays
• SALT WATER PROOF: At helm components, buttons, switches, controls.
• EASE OF USE: In varied lighting, underway, bad weather, waves

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:

• PROTECTION: At-Helm Controls and Displays 100% behind sealed .125 inch Lexan plastic panel
• NOTE: Steering, Engine controls conventional: not included.
• DISPLAY: Wide LCD Display (1440x900 or more) for both NAV and Systems Monitoring. Mounted, oriented for daylight visibility. Integrated with Switches, Light displays.
• SWITCHES-CONTROLS: Large touch-switch controls just behind the Lexan panel.
• DISPLAYS: Both on-screen 'instruments' such as Engine Monitoring, and behind-panel lights and probably bright LED-Character display(s)
• NOTE: Underway, most interaction with NAV Software display, calling up systems monitoring displays, controlling systems and lights etc. is done with touch switches on large panel, NOT with mouse, or touch-screen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Monitoring and Control of Onboard Systems
CHALLENGES:

• DEVICES: Simple, Reliable onboard system monitoring and control devices
• SENSORS: Interface to wide variety of sensors for: Engine, Power Systems, Tanks, Heating-Cooling, Weather, Environment, Gases, Safety etc.
• INTEROPERABLE: With industry-standard NMEA devices
• CONTROLS: Effective, affordable controls and switches for onboard systems, lights, etc.
• AVAILABILITY: Reliable in heat, vibration, voltage variations, (possibly Lightning)

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:

• MONITORING DEVICES: Use Industry Standard (ex: CruzPro) Engine and Power Monitoring devices with NMEA0183 outputs, or Microcomputer-based DIY or Custom devices.
• NMEA COMBINERS (MULTIPLEXERS): Industry Standard or DIY/Custom devices. Monitoring devices could/should include NMEA Multiplexer capability, of 1 to 4 other devices. A final NMEA Multiplexer should have USB output to computer.
• NETWORK: (See Network Thread): NMEA0183 (Serial 4800 Baud), may be implemented as Fiber Optic or Wireless link instead of wired.
• CONTROLS: NMEA controlled "Smart Switches" with on-off, Status, Current measurement, Overcurrent and overvoltage protection, automatic try-again on overcurrent, etc.
• CONTROLS: Lighting controls for Halogen or LEDs, with dimming, status readback, current measurement capability. Perhaps include human-detect lighting (at least for the head)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Networks - Protocols - NMEA and other onboard networks
CHALLENGES:

• ROBUST, CONFIGURABLE: network connection system
• INTEROPERABLE: With industry-standard NMEA devices
• RELIABLE WIRING: Onboard environment, vibration

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:

• NMEA 0183 based: 4800 Baud Serial, single talker, multiple listeners per segment.
• NMEA 'Combiners' or 'Multiplexers' can take 2 or more NMEA inputs and combine them into one NMEA output, with the messages interspersed.
• NMEA can be (carefully) non-standard: Higher baud rates from combiners to USB, Fiber-Optic or Wireless transmission.
• NMEA Control signals TO devices can be routed through many different listener devices.
• ETHERNET may be used with multiple computers. It is possible to send NMEA messages over ETHERNET.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Software for NAV - Monitoring - Control
CHALLENGES:

• EFFECTIVE, RELIABLE NAVIGATION SUPPORT:
• INTEGRATION WITH ONBOARD SYSTEMS:
• COLLISION AVOIDANCE: AIS and RADAR

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:

• NAV Software is good and easily available, from OziExplorer to Fugawi, and many others, some including extensive chart collections.
• AIS (large ship positions) can be shown on OziExplorer screen.
• MONITORING Software is somewhat limited at this time. There are some possibilities from major NMEA device manufacturers, and some shareware. Needs more investigation.
• DIY Monitoring Software would be an interesting project, and could better integrate with the combination of Computer and Hardware displays Terry likes.
• CONTROL Software is even more limited, except for some big-boat customized systems. DIY collaboration here would be a good project.
• INTEGRATION of Monitoring and Control software is needed for intelligent onboard systems.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Communications at a distance
CHALLENGES:

• UNDERSTAND HF RADIO OPTIONS: Email, WeatherFAX etc.
• UNDERSTAND SATELLITE OPTIONS: Email, Telephone, Costs etc.

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Multipurpose Onboard Computers: Leisure Time and At-Anchor Activities
CHALLENGES:

• CD/DVD DRIVE: Workable in Onboard Environment
• DVD MOVIE PLAYBACK: Software / codec support
• TV-RADIO RECEPTION:

IDEAS AND DIRECTIONS:

For Reference: Proposed System Block Diagram

[TerryKing]

YaHoo! I got the prototype off the dock... I have the VIA EN12000EG system board with 1 GB RAM and the PicoPSU-120 12 volt power supply running on 12 volts. Running 17 watts operating and 12 watts in sleep-back on in 5 seconds mode.

See: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...9&postcount=11
for details.

PLEASE comment/suggest!

[yipster]

tommorow or the day after - i'll visit the Mets and check again on some of these things
i would say keep it simple and easy - once i had the whole enchilada wired to a 486

[Tim B]

Terry, it looks fantastic. Would be great to get Debian running on it, and write some apps. I'm still basing my first attempts on a small NAV system for in-car use. Unfortunately, since I'm going to Paris at New Year I have run out of money at present, so haven't got very far!

However, I did manage to have a look at the API libraries for ESRI data, and it's simple enough to use. I have also managed to read GSHHS data, so now all we need is a list of Bouys, and we have a reasonable start at a sat-nav system. The advantage of this is that it can be written to be a very light system.

Anyway, I need to keep hacking away at this. I think I'll go and write my Christmas list now!!

Tim B.

[TerryKing]

I never tried the XP Hibernation thing before.. It saves the complete state of the PC, applications loaded etc.

The system I'm prototyping has timings like these (seconds):

60 cold boot (Not bad for XP!)
60 warm boot
40 Hibernate / shut off (complete power off)
26 Wake up from hibernation with applications (OziExplorer) running, map displayed

15 load FoxFire browser
05 load OziExplorer
03 load new large map in OziExplorer IN OZF3 FORMAT (recommended)

For sail cruising on a very tight power budget, hibernation when not needed and the ability to have a running NAV screen in 26 seconds sounds good. A way to power off the LCD display at the same time would be good too.

[yipster]

from gettin lost in brian eilands last post http://www.caracolyachts.com/t_pcintfc.htm may be of interest to you hardcore computer whizzkids

[thekl0wn]

Had to check this out after seeing the post over on MP3car.com... Lookin' great so far!

As far as your LCD power, many of the LCD's power off if there is no input signal. They will stay on for about 10 seconds to give the user time to switch the inputs, and if no input is present it powers down. Same goes for the power on. On my TS, I keep it set to VGA-in, and when the PC hibernates, no signal is sent to the LCD, and it shuts down... On waking from hibernation, the screen powers itself back up.

Where are you on the programming end of things?

Also, what are you leaning towards on your I/O? (sensors, light panel, etc...)

This truly is a great project... I'm going to have to wade through all the pages this week!

[TerryKing]

Originally Posted by thekl0wn

..(snip).. As far as your LCD power, many of the LCD's power off if there is no input signal.
Where are you on the programming end of things?
Also, what are you leaning towards on your I/O? (sensors, light panel, etc...)

Thanks for dropping in; I learned a lot from the MP3CAR guys!

I need to look at LCD displays in detail soon.. One 'problem' is that many of the new ones have onboard power supplies, and I'd like to run the display directly from 12 volts, like the older ones use. Since the system power is down to 12 watts running, the LCD display power will probably be more than the system. But your point about the automatic power-off is good.

There are two different power points, I think: Any power boat underway will have no problem with 1 to 3 amps at 12 volts for the full system. A cruising sailboat going for a day or more with only battery plus some solar / wind power will be much more sensitive to power budget.

Power boats tend to have big house batteries and so a system that runs 1 to 3 amps with a large LCD running is fine at anchor, watching a DVD etc. and when the system can hibernate in 11 seconds to zero power, and come back up live in 15 seconds (my current timings) it looks really good.

I'll put up details later today on the current system, now running an 80 GB Hitachi 2.5 inch SATA notebook drive which seems to take 2 watts read/write and .6 watts idle. This drive also has 300 G shock spec. and is good to 130 F, so it looks good for a vehicle / marine environment. And it was $53.00

Programming: Not too far on the DIY part! I'm just debugging some microcomputer stuff, first working on a 24F PIC to try to get an 8-input NMEA multiplexor working, and then start adding some engine monitoring to it. That's something like up to 8 4800 baud input ports, combined into one output port, probably at 19 to 38K baud, and/or USB. This stuff is to be able to DIY the onboard monitoring devices and integrate existing sensors etc.

The PC environment LCD part (that I show surrounding the existing OziExplorer or other navigation software) is at the "learn VB Net or Visual C++ enough to start" point. I've written quite a bit in 'C' so I'm leaning that way, especially as the microcomputer stuff is in 'C'. I'm looking for good free/cheap plug-ins / libraries to do the graphic dials and displays...

And, I have a Cypress development kit for Touch-Panel switches etc. and I'm looking at large hardware touch 'buttons' surrounding the LCD on left-bottom-right. Think about a boat pitching all around in dark, stormy weather, driving while watching the waves, the navigation display, and trying to hit the right button every time.

Any pointers to other people's ideas and work appreciated! This will never get done if everything has to be invented in one place...

OK, an update in a bit.

[brian eiland]

Sorry I've not had time to review this subject thread, but I thought I might thrown in a little 'funny' on the subject

Parody on the poem, 'the call of the Running Tide'

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sho...604#post173604

[TerryKing]

Brian, That's a great one!

We (well, I) can sometimes be a little too enamored with the Technology.

I think you have to love working "On" the boat as much as sailing "On" the boat, at least if you have an old or homemade boat like mine!