bridge design - feedback request

[mydauphin]

The second is a Wally 70' , it looks like center console all by itself in bridge. the spaceship one is a fast yacht , it is very car like. Visibility might be issue here. But offers speedboat type setup. May be I like this idea for upper bridge.

When I read through the posts, I discover that there where things I didn't think of... cup holder the hell away from the electronics, for example. I have discovered throughout this forum that there are many viable options that don't agree with my take - so weigh the input and decide.
Old school masters may want a chart table for whatever reason ...but plotting fixes on a paper chart is, what I'll stand by, an anachronism. In fact, I believe store-bought paper charts are probably mostly on their way out (for ships with variable itineraries, down-loadable up-to-date ones, compatible with on-board printers, will undoubtedly be invented soon, if not already). The plus side to paper? They look quaint laminated on a small-craft setee table (an up-to-date chart for any area one might traverse should be held in reserve, however).

Originally Posted by mark775

When I read through the posts, I discover that there where things I didn't think of... cup holder the hell away from the electronics, for example. I have discovered throughout this forum that there are many viable options that don't agree with my take - so weigh the input and decide.
Old school masters may want a chart table for whatever reason ...but plotting fixes on a paper chart is, what I'll stand by, an anachronism. In fact, I believe store-bought paper charts are probably mostly on their way out (for ships with variable itineraries, down-loadable up-to-date ones, compatible with on-board printers, will undoubtedly be invented soon, if not already). The plus side to paper? They look quaint laminated on a small-craft setee table (an up-to-date chart for any area one might traverse should be held in reserve, however).

Cupholders have to be at the chair, as I mentioned, so all you can destroy is your good mood. Paper charts do´nt fail! For example, I still use them as a sort of insurance not to miss a buoy in unknown channels. I lay my Circle with one peak on the buoy just passed, the other on the one ahead, when passing this, I move the former peak to the next buoy. Grandfathers practice, but still valid. Another point is to compare a Radar picture with something really reliable. The chartplotter overlay may fit your radar picture, but often does´nt although both devices show the same area. As a developer I can tell you that we still use printouts of our CAD generated phantasies to get a feeling of what we have done. And quite often we notice minor faults made on screen. Same is valid for all electronic devices we use today, you overlook things too easy.


Regards
Richard

[mydauphin]

Originally Posted by mark775

When I read through the posts, I discover that there where things I didn't think of... cup holder the hell away from the electronics, for example. I have discovered throughout this forum that there are many viable options that don't agree with my take - so weigh the input and decide.
Old school masters may want a chart table for whatever reason ...but plotting fixes on a paper chart is, what I'll stand by, an anachronism. In fact, I believe store-bought paper charts are probably mostly on their way out (for ships with variable itineraries, down-loadable up-to-date ones, compatible with on-board printers, will undoubtedly be invented soon, if not already). The plus side to paper? They look quaint laminated on a small-craft setee table (an up-to-date chart for any area one might traverse should be held in reserve, however).

Now matter how big a screen, a chart is easier to read, gives you better feel for scale, doesn't require power and you can sit around table, pin on wall and throw darts. I do like goggle earth....

[wardd]

as a firm believer in redundancy suppose a lightning strike and all electronics are fried.

charts, Bowditch, sextant, chrono, compass and a working ability to use them

I know, I know. I whole-heartedly believe in redundancy. I always keep charts - in sealed tubes. I just don't believe there needs to be room dedicated to them in the traditional manner, a chart table. To each their own - you could just not hire somebody like me that actually looks at a chart just for license upgrades...I didn't mean to start a controversy and we don't even need to finish because I'll change my tune - Given a nearly unlimited amount of space a chart table would be a nice addition.

Originally Posted by mark775

I'll change my tune - Given a nearly unlimited amount of space a chart table would be a nice addition.

Thats the point! We did start talking about that issue (and I never changed the direction), looking at the possible addition of a chart table on a real bridge, not a small yachts wheelstation.

Regards
Richard

Sorry for the tangent but I don't think it warrants it's own thread. I know people going to sea should carry and know how to use a sextant and its accessories but how many masters of the required tonnage of the vessel in question actually have the working knowledge? Sailboaters - some, because they have lots of time. Guys who drug themselves through the hawsepipe to get the papers to run a workboat like that - I suspect darn few.
The guy running the boat didn't go to an acadamy. If he knows how to use a sextant well, he's a sailboater - and that means he doesn't have much ship-handling experience of this type. 99% of the time, he's fumbling through the parts, trying to remember what does what, looking through it the wrong way, only to have a "chronometer" that's off, rendering the exersize meaningless. No offence, I'm talking percentages here.

You're right, Richard.

[expedition]

It's been some time but here's an updated lay-out of our bridge of our trawler to yacht conversion.

I've incorporated several of your suggestions and added doors in the side. I think this will greatly improve the traffic flow. Of course we won't forget the cupholders :-)

There's room for a computer on the port side of the chart desk and there will also be a monitor here that gives access to anything that's available to the helmsman position. This area can be sealed of with a curtain in order not to blind the helmsman when checking out say CCTV camera's or other stuff that creates more light than wanted.

Some people told me 2 helmchairs would be a minimum. I don't think so and didn't want to sacrifice the space. Whoever wants to join the person on watch can sit on the bench, stand arouind or take his chair :-).

To compare with the old layout, see www.expeditionyacht.org. It also has an initial list of equipment.

Thanks again for all your input.

Thorwald

Are these smaller dots on both sides the engine controls?

Don´t do that mistake! Engine instruments have to sit side by side for every information given. Both oil pressure displays side by side, both rpm displays side by side etc. (analog of course)
That way you can notice every irregular figure without really "reading" the instruments, you just perceive there are different indicator readings.

With the common (and dumb) system you have to fully read and grasp the data for both engines.

And one helmchair is enough, I agree.

Regards
Richard

[expedition]

Hi Richard,

No. That's still a remainder of the old layout with the handles controlling the winches (of this former fishing trawler). All engine instruments will be shown on monitors through a (class approved) automation and monitoring system (from Marble Automation).

We also may end up with a straight panel instead of the current 'U' shape.

Originally Posted by expedition

Hi Richard,

No. That's still a remainder of the old layout with the handles controlling the winches (of this former fishing trawler). All engine instruments will be shown on monitors through a (class approved) automation and monitoring system (from Marble Automation).

We also may end up with a straight panel instead of the current 'U' shape.

A poor solution, really!
All those engine monitoring / management systems are **** in terms of display quality.

Crisp clear, reliable, exact, yes, they are. Most of them allow for analog display too, nice.

But when you compare with a old analog gauge, they are much less "intuitive" to read!

Imagine two oil pressure gauges mounted side by side, as it has to be done.

You must never watch them deliberately, when there is a slight difference in the readings, you immediately notice that.
Not so on a digital display which you have to read, translate and understand. And not so on a monitor with 12 different values displayed at the same time.

I go for the old gauges, no matter how high tech the boat. (and every black smith in Vanuatu has a replacement)

My experience, others may have different thoughts.

Richard

[wardd]

Originally Posted by apex1

Are these smaller dots on both sides the engine controls?

Don´t do that mistake! Engine instruments have to sit side by side for every information given. Both oil pressure displays side by side, both rpm displays side by side etc. (analog of course)
That way you can notice every irregular figure without really "reading" the instruments, you just perceive there are different indicator readings.

With the common (and dumb) system you have to fully read and grasp the data for both engines.

And one helmchair is enough, I agree.

Regards
Richard

in the military aircraft I worked on the instruments were set in the panel so the needles were vertical when in the normal range even if the instrument was at 45 or 90 degrees, that way any needle not vertical meant something was wrong and could be seen at a glance

[marshmat]

Originally Posted by wardd

in the military aircraft I worked on the instruments were set in the panel so the needles were vertical when in the normal range even if the instrument was at 45 or 90 degrees, that way any needle not vertical meant something was wrong and could be seen at a glance

I've seen a few speedboats set up like that, too. It looks weird at the dock, but makes a lot of sense when in use- any abnormal reading is immediately obvious.