wingmast and sail slides

[jpquattro]

Hi all.
Back on the subject of wing mast...
I would like to have suggestion on the best sail slide to be used on a wing mast...
The problems that appears to me hare:
0) Low cost!
1) simple use... the sail must be folded on the boom, without problems...
2) no aerodinamic obstacles... that is, if I use a large track, I will have a large step between the sail and the mast this produce turbolence...
3) No (or minimal...) gap between sail and mast, for the same reason, non turbolence...

Any suggestion? how you have solved the problem?
Tanks to all...

Paolo

[Eric Sponberg]

I have used two systems.

The first is Antal from Italy--great small slides/batten cars with little gap between the sail and the track. There are no roller balls to slip out and go rolling all over the deck.

The other is Harken which is good on larger masts. They have a switch track that can stack sail slides side by side when the sail is lowered, so this lowers the sail stack when the sail is furled.

Eric

[jpquattro]

Hi Eric!
Tank you for your replay.

Disregarding Harken (too big, too expensive) the smallest Antal track, the one suitable for my (future...) mast, is 22 mm wide ( 7/8") not exactly slim, at least for a 10 meter mast... my sailmaker suggest that the less invasive and less expensive solution is the classical luff rope (the name is correct?)accepting all the related troubles...

I have seen sliders large only 12 mm (1/2") Now I don't remember the brand...
Do you have any info about other solution?

Paolo

[Eric Sponberg]

Another brand that I have used is the Tides Marine sailtrack. This utilizes small sail slides. The track is made out of black UHMW plastic and comes in a few different styles to suit different masts. It has been around for years and works very well. Here is a link:

http://www.tidesmarine.com/sail-track.html

They are located in Florida (I have done a fair bit of engineering for them). They do have reps in Europe, including Italy.

Eric

[catsketcher]

I had a luff rope system and got rid of it from my 31ft tri. If you are singlehanding with a luff rope main and drop it it spills over the side. I did that once offshore and it was very hard to get it back onboard again.

My luff slides on my 38ft cat are made from UHMW plastic. If you had a friend with a machine shop you could make your own. My mast section also has a flat section (about 40mm wide) on the back. This lets the main luff "tack" and sit on the leeward side of the slide. The slide is secured onto the luff with webbing. I have replaced the webbing once in ten years and the main luff is in very good condition still. I am very happy with this system and was sceptical it would work.

The section is an Allyacht spars IM20. They have slides too.

http://www.allyachtspars.com.au/incl...adercovers.pdf

cheers

Phil

[jpquattro]

Eric,
I have a sailtrack sample on the desk, the track is 35 mm wide (1 3/8), much larger than Antal... don't know if a smaller model exist, but this one is really big.


Phil your sliders appear the solution I was loking for... you use the type for boltrope track, right?
can you post the dimensions?
Eric, Phil, tank you for the help!

Paolo

[rob denney]

Originally Posted by jpquattro

Hi all.
Back on the subject of wing mast...
I would like to have suggestion on the best sail slide to be used on a wing mast...
The problems that appears to me hare:
0) Low cost!
1) simple use... the sail must be folded on the boom, without problems...
2) no aerodinamic obstacles... that is, if I use a large track, I will have a large step between the sail and the mast this produce turbolence...
3) No (or minimal...) gap between sail and mast, for the same reason, non turbolence...

Any suggestion? how you have solved the problem?
Tanks to all...

Paolo

If your mast is unstayed and less than say 14n long, then you can use plastic slugs (round slides) or slides with stainless inserts. See PNP or Ronstan. Bigger than this, and you may need more substantial cars.

Alloy track on a carbon mast is awful. You need to bolt it on to the mast which requires a backing plate and will eventually lead to corrosion problems. It is also often insufficient with a big roach main when reefed. A carbon rcb (use rods, not balls) track built as part of the mast is a much better solution, second is a carbon rcb track glued/glassed to the mast. This is what we did on our early masts, but now we are including them in the laminate.

My next experimental/personal mast will have large slugs which I am building myself. These will have incorporate the batten attachment. Should be very cheap, as strong as I like to make it and much easier to hoist/lower.

rob

[jpquattro]

Rob my mast will be 10 meter long, (33')...
I have seen Ronstan catalogue, maybe the PNP150 is what I am looking for...
do you plan to build something similar to the ronstan PNP150, maybe without wheels?
Can you post some plan?
I have seen also the type suggested by Phil...

Paolo

[rob denney]

Originally Posted by jpquattro

Rob my mast will be 10 meter long, (33')...
I have seen Ronstan catalogue, maybe the PNP150 is what I am looking for...
do you plan to build something similar to the ronstan PNP150, maybe without wheels?
Can you post some plan?
I have seen also the type suggested by Phil...

Paolo

If your mast is unstayed, those are overkill. You won't need the wheels, any of the 9 or 10mm slugs will suffice (may as well go with the ss reinforced ones for protection against crash gybes). You will need a strong one at the head if you have a big roach and/or will be sailing reefed a lot. Reinforce the track at these points as well. The sail is always hoisted and lowered pointing into the wind with the sail flapping.

If it is stayed, and you expect to pull the sail down in a squall running ddw with the main pinned against the shrouds, they will be inadequate.

If I have to draw plans, you need to pay me, when I know they work. There will be pictures on the harryproa chat group when it is sailing.

rob

[Gary Baigent]

catsketcher, I have no problems with bolt rope on 15.5 metre wingmast, bolt rope (lubricated) is the lightest and most aerodynamically efficient. Your losing main overboard hassle can be removed by installing lazy jacks, or two sets - or better still, have an open boom (with lazy jacks) and the sail is always controlled.

[rayaldridge]

What do you use to lube a bolt rope?

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by rayaldridge

What do you use to lube a bolt rope?

I don't know what Gary uses in NZ, but here in the USA most people I know use McLube Sailkote.

http://www.mclubemarine.com/sailkote/


I sailed for many years with a 10m full batten main with bolt rope on my monohull sportboat and didn't use any lube at all. No issues.

[catsketcher]

I get the lazy jacks Gary. The first thing I did when the boat came home was to put them on. One of the best reasons for slides is that you don't have to worry about feeding the luff as you winch the sail up. I found this a pain on my own. My own luff tape wore out twice at the batten ends before I put slides on and I did not do many miles before it wore out.

I remember the day when I decided to go slides. I had had the Twiggy for about 18 months. We had just done a race in about 1990. Verbatim and John West were there and I watched John West release their halyard. The main just fell down and neatly stacked itself. I had great wads of luff that was a lot harder to put away. I took the main to the sailmaker the next day and never regretted it.

Still you have to be careful. Verbatim actually had issues with their slides sticking. Phil Weld talks of his losing the 1978 Rhut du Rhum with sticky slides causing him to blow out his main. Good slides are best (for me) luff rope next and a long way back are sticky slides.

cheers

Phil

[ThomD]

Another option maybe, is to use the Gougeon reefing system. This sets the battens parallel to the boom and the boom perp to the spar. The boom is a rotating so the main just winds up and down. They use a boltrope system, normally home made.