what is this Cat

[Bruce Woods]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

The Arrow was a 14 foot design with bridge deck but completely different hull shapes to this cat. The Cunninghams, I believe, preferred double ended canoe hulls and all their cats were to this shape - although they made a cruising cat which was somewhat different. The Yvonne was 20 feet but again completely different to this boat; the sheerline was a soft, reversed S from bow to stern - and I don't know about the Arafura - there has to be some Aussies out there who are more o fay than this kiwi with their designs.

The Arrow and arafura cadet were designed by Neil Fowler. They originally had ply decks and single swing centre board. Latter builds had alloy box beams and tramps with single swing board. Both designs had flat bottoms.

Most early cunningham designs had very fine sterns. Quick Cat, Evonne etc.

I'd guess at a one off. Seems to have preety unusual hull shape.

[captainsideburn]

so aside from pointless arguments about planing, which aren't going to be resolved in this post....

Any further insight on what the design might be?

[captainsideburn]

some further insight had come along, sorry and thanks for replies

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Sure, yeah, right ..... no! - those hulls are really asymmetric CSK, dream on Chris. However I agree the attractive looking classical cat design should be left alone. ....

Please read it again, Gary. Apparently, in your haste, you have misread the vital reference.

"This boat represents the essence of Choy, ..(et. al.)"

You miss the read and then go on with the, "...I agree the attractive looking classical cat design should be left alone."

I'm just a bit confused. Are you in agreement, or are you not?

Here's a boat which was made in California at just about the same time as the boat which is the topic of the thread likely was on the other side of the planet. It's just a bit bigger, but it also has the unmistakeable lines of having been influenced by the preceeding work of Choy and the whole gang who clearly set the pace in the early days of the modern cat.

The boat shown below was built and sailed (and I would also guess that it was designed, as well) by U.S. surfing legend Phil Edwards. Phil also played a large part in the development of the original cats created by Hobart Alter on the beaches of SoCal.

[captainsideburn]

ooh, thats cool, what is it?

[Gary Baigent]

Chris, I thought my comments were pretty clear - the asymmetrical, fine bow/very narrow stern hulls, almost double ended, of the the Choy, Seaman, Kumalae beach cats were/are almost the antithesis of this very wide hulled, wide stern phantom cat. Seems to be the essence of the differing designs are poles apart to me. And the point of leaving the cat in its classical original form was, I thought pretty clear too. I'm not advocating hacking it around to make a messed up half modern design out of it. Comprehend, mate.
Back to topic: the 20 foot Yvonne was a chined but fine, double ended hull design by Charlie and Lindsay Cunningham, their first design, as was their double ended but round bilge cruising cat Allouette; they also designed Quickcat, Austral and their famous C Class Quests, all fine bowed, fined stern hull designs.
This phantom cat from Tasmania seems to be a compilation of a number of Prout and various NZ designs - with maybe a smattering of CSK thought in the ....... bridge deck. All CSK's incidentally, Chris, had masthead rigs - which was not the norm with cat designs from the southern antipodes.

[bruceb]

In the US, back in the early 70's, there were several of beach cats built in glass that had wide transom hulls. The 12 and 14 "aqua cats" (sort of large beach toys), the "star cat 5.6" and one other larger about 19-20 feet that I can't remember. I have sailed some on all of them, and while none of them were great all-round boats, they did go very fast on an open reach. Maybe not planing, but far better than I might have expected. I will try to get some pictures, there are some of them still around. Bruce

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by captainsideburn

ooh, thats cool, what is it?

That is the Phil Edwards, El Gato. If you do a little Googling around with those names in the subject line, you'll be able to collect a bunch of tidbits about the boat and its builder/designer/owner. This was way back in 1960 when Edwards was developing into the consumate Waterman of his time.

El Gato was entered several times in the Newport to Ensenada sailboat race against boats as big as 80 feet, finishing fourth overall at least once. Race officials did not recognize his boat, as it was classed as too small to qualify and, much like Herreshof's experience way back when, the mono dudes just didn't like the fact that someone, who was very talented, had beaten them on a much smaller catamaran.

Some of these pictures were taken recently as the boat got a complete refitting by the new owner. That dude with the white hair in the foreground of one shot is Phil. I can only guess at his stoke, seeing his original boat being taken care of so well after so many years.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Gary Baigent

Chris, I thought my comments were pretty clear...

When you look at the lines of the boat. The ones you see from a distance as you first spot her sitting at the mooring, the boat easily fits within the very typical look of the boats of its time. So, too, do the overall lines of El Gato when you look at her in the supplied photos.

Yeah sure, there are going to be differences in the execution of that over-arching design aesthetic for any designer. But the lines, my man, the lines speak volumes as to era and influence and they virtually shout it out if one is so inclined to look up from the absolute details.

It's that part of being an artist, Gary, when the first big strokes of the charcoal are put to paper following the inspiration of the designer's mood. One can always fiddle with the details of anything on the boat in order to express a preference, but that first set of lines tells all.

While I'm talking big picture conceptual stuff, you are busy haggling over the arrangement of the deck chairs on your own personal Titanic of an argument. Remember... "the essence of Choy, et, al." ?

The reason the boats of that explosive era are so recognizable is because the whole group of guys previously mentioned set a style and genre banging tone in the look and feel of their work. There is another design motif which became the dominant expression in the early designs of modern era trimarans. They very much look like a larger body of work, even though they came from many different pencils. The current look of multihulls is also shaping into a set of distilled appearance factors which will one day be recognized as period unto itself.

If you look to the worlds of architecture and art, you'll see whole categories for the different genre movements as time moved on. Yet, within the movement of say, the Impressionists, there were hundreds of artists who expressed themselves in their own stylistic manner within the broader period in art history.

One who studies the Impressionist period deeply, can tell you the names of the individual artists by simply looking at the canvas, so there is plenty of room to twiddle about over the details of brush work, color palettes, canvas prep, framing, etc. Van Gogh is an Impressionist and so is Monet, yet the result of their individual style is amazingly different in its eventual expression.

Now, with all that said, I would like it very much if you simply let it go. To move it along in that direction, so that the rest of the guys can have an enjoyable discussion, as well... I fully acknowledge the absolute correctness of your points so made.

I trust that will end the discourse.

But Mr. Ostlind,what you said was nutty. I trust that will end the discourse.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord

But Mr. Ostlind,what you said was nutty. I trust that will end the discourse.

You are given the floor and you deliver this?

When you answer this challenge, we can talk...

Originally Posted by Chris Ostlind

So, here's your challenge Doug. Prove that the cat shown is not in the fashion of the early cats of the sixties by the great ones so named above.

The lights are on, the mic is hot and the whole bunch of us are watching.

Gary chose his avenue of thought and brought descriptions, details, facts, etc. I admire him for his presented argument. I don't agree with the specifics of his point making, but his work product was excellent.

What, specifically, is your well-founded argument?

What we see in your post above, is something like the guy who kept telling the teacher that his dog ate his homework and then reeled off a couple of jokes to get the class laughing.

Oh, well....

[Timothy]

I have to agree with Chris. I am no expert , but it seams to me that boats are as much art as they are exercises in engineering, and though the adage form follows function can not be discounted, any design is conceived in time and is influenced by that time, as much by its purpose , its designers character , its contemporaries, or by history.

[bill broome]

a jarcat j7 will plane- very flat run, and over 90% of beam at the transom.

but this boat is less likely. and doesn't matter- it's a beauty.

[captainsideburn]

hmm, I'd like to see a modern version of that catamaran you posted chris. I do think small light bridgedecks like that are under rated these days. after sailing my boat, i'm now quite partial to them, just not the big ones with cabins and all

[captainsideburn]

Hi, just to resurrect this thread, someone I know said they thought this cat might be an Attunga 20.
Does anyone know anything about this boat?