Wharram Tiki wrecked in Thailand

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by Alik

What You have read? Where? Who said that? If You are talking about private blogs of Creed and *****, then a) both of them were managed by Creed b) it was removed on our request long time ago as it was not true.

RB's new blog started in January 2009. First post: Thursday, January 29, 2009, 4:51 PM. That's long after CCOH and RB break up. So a) that blog is not managed by CCOH. And b) it is not removed. See post #92 about RB's old and new blog.

Regards, Angélique.

[warmat]

Originally Posted by Alik

At present, we deal with about 20 builders worldwide.


But actually You are, Warren! Nothing personal, but just look at reality. You can not just change hull shape and material, but leave all design as it was. Sometimes we change hull length by 100mm, displacement by 100kg or deadrise by 5 degree - and we already have to re-work all scantlings!

Ask any expert in this forum - they will confirm.

Alik,

The reality is that one of the reasons that I was sold my boat by ***** was on the basis that the hull designs were professionally reworked by you and that the only change to the Wharram plans that was that it was in strip planking and that the displacement was slightly greater due to the extra 'chine' being being eliminated. This was a simple modification and one that appealed to me.

This is why I agreed to proceed. Those change did not, or least should not have led on to major flow on effects...if constructed as represented. I don't have to ask any expert about this. In my 40 years of playing around in boats I have built several dozen power catamarans, 6 of which were in excess of 70feet. I have been intimately involved in the design and construction of all of them so I do know a little bit about what works and what doesn't...at least when is comes to hulls and superstructure construction.

You are a naval architect so you know what I am saying about the changes is true. Maybe what I was told by ***** did not happen! Clearly I don't know as much as you do about who actually did those 3D drawings or exactly what changes were done. You do seem to know a lot about it for someone who claims they did not do the 3D rendering.

Does ***** have the expertise to do a 3D drawing like he produced? Maybe someone in your office did a 'moonlighter'?

In any case, as I said I don't care. I am quite happy with my hulls even though I paid a 300% premium for them. I am not going to waste my time responding to anything further on this subject. I only posted what I did to try to help provide some clarity on the issue of the Tiki 38 3D renderings based on first hand knowledge.

[Alik]

Originally Posted by warmat

Alik,
The reality is that one of the reasons that I was sold my boat...

Warren, I always mind if someone is not willing to order complete design set, or even a concept design set, but using our name as designer of his boat. I am sure that Mr.Wharram does not accept use of his name for Your and Creed's boats either, whatever third parties say in their blogs!

For the renderings - You can look at my gallery on this site to see how our renderings look.

[warmat]

Alik,

I really don't understand why you are even discussing this with me. ***** showed me the 3D renderings, said they were done by you. He had already built Creeds hulls at that stage and he said the hydrostatics had been done so I had no cause to suspect the hull drawings were incomplete.

End of story...and end of my comments on this matter. If others in this forum what to establish who is telling the truth...you, or *****...that is their call...I personally don't care.

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by warmat

.... beyond the hull modification everything else was to be as per the Wharram plans.

Warren,

You changed hull shape, hull material, and build method. After that nothing can be as per the Wharram plans because everything else in the build has to be adjusted to match with the previous adjustments. Alik is right about that! For example, how are the keels and the skegs fitted into your heavily modified hulls? I would not be suprised if RB messed up there too.

See also my edit of post #93.

Regards, Angélique.

[warmat]

Angelique,

Fair comment...but, what I was trying to refer too was the rest of the vessel. Strip planking is quite commonly used on Wharram hulls and is not a major modification. I am still checking out the method used for fixing the skeg. I suspect it is OK as I saw them soon after they were done and they had much heavier laminates securing them to the hulls than Creeds boat. However, we will be doing some core samples.

The rest of the boat...beams, rig etc will be as per plan with minor modification. As matter of fact I have been having discussion with Gunther Nutt of Seascape Marine in Phuket who is a licenced Wharram builder and has built 26 Wharrams. I am considering having him build my masts and supplying the rigging and shipping it all to NZ and then flying him there to set it up and 'tune it'. Although my NZ builder is capable of doing this their specialty is high tech offshore racing yachts. Gunther has considerable experience with the Wharram rigs and has been successful with them so it makes sense to take advantage of his knowledge.

I will make a decision within the next couple of days and post the details on the blog.

I am however modifiying the cockpit area as the standard design doesn't suit my needs. I will shortly post on my blog the deck layout.

Warren

[Angélique]

Warren,

First of all, I feel verry sorry about what happend to you and Creed. I wish you both the best.

Originally Posted by warmat

.... I am considering having him build my masts and supplying the rigging and shipping it all to NZ and then flying him there to set it up
and 'tune it'.

Wharram is very enthusiastic about Günther.

http://www.wharram.com/letterapril003.htm

http://wharram.eu//live//article.php...80515162825578

Perhaps you can entice Günther to do a speed sea trial in a 8 around the NZ North and South Island

Good luck! Angélique.

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by warmat

Strip planking is quite commonly used on Wharram hulls and is not a major modification.

That's right: "Can I build the Tiki 38 in strip plank?"

Regards, Angélique.

[Angélique]

Humm... a post of mine is missing. I wonder who has eaten it and why?

Angélique

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Angélique

Humm... a post of mine is missing. I wonder who has eaten it and why?

Angélique

Please check your private messages - I have just sent you a message explaining why the one post of yours was deleted.

[Angélique]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Please check your private messages - I have just sent you a message explaining why the one post of yours was deleted.

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your reply. I now can understand the reason for the removal of that item. I can live with that.

Regards, Angélique

[raoul bianchett]

In my 40 years of playing around in boats I have built several dozen power catamarans, 6 of which were in excess of 70feet. I have been intimately involved in the design and construction of all of them so I do know a little bit about what works and what doesn't...at least when is comes to hulls and superstructure construction.

This is fantastic !!!! several dozens !!!!!!!

hahahahahahahahaha !!!!

I will keep this one together with the other one , when Warren was sailing in 10 meters waves , in the middle of the icebergs on a canoe ....

what a clown..

[warmat]

Hello *****,

With remarks like this I think that it is about time that I revealed some other info about my experience with building a boat with you and give the truth about what you did to Creed.

For the record *****, over the last 40 years I have built over 90 power catamarans from 18 - 28 feet, and 7 power cats in excess of 70 feet.

And yes, it is on record that I have worked ocean bars in New Zealand and Australia with surf in excess of 10 meters, and yes it is on record that I have operated in storm conditions off the coast of NZ in sea conditions in excess of 10 meters in Cook Strait when conditions were so bad that shipping in the area ceased for a day. And yes it is on record that I have operated my 23' Shark Cat in 90 knot winds (not 90 km) in a rescue operation.

So, don't call me a clown *****. I have been civil to you in both my blog and in this forum. Do you want to apologise ***** or, do you want the gloves to come off?? Your call.

Warren

[warmat]

To all those who may be wondering about the number of power cats that I have built. For a number of years I operated a commerical shark fishing operation from a Shark Cat which I built in New Zealand. The length of these boats varied from 18 - 28' with the most popular size being 23'. The Shark Cats were designed in Australia for working the Shark nets off the Gold Coast, Queensland.

This necessited negotiating the Southport bar which can be exceptionally dangerous at times. The Shark Cat was one of the few vessels that could negotiate it safely in all conditions subject to the skill of the operator.

As a hobby whilst I was fishing I set up a factory to manufacture the Shark Cats in New Zealand, and I sold more than 90 of them. Many of them I owned and operated first and then sold them which is why I had so many.

Warren

[rwatson]

So you got your dodgy Wharram Cats built in Thailand why ?

Was that 300% premium you quoted (3 times the expected cost ) still cheaper than New Zealand Labour ?