Wharram Tiki wrecked in Thailand

[warmat]

Frosty...maybe your friend had his built by the same builder?

Properly built boats don't break up...certainly not in the Gulf of Thailand. Ask Maxim in Phuket whose Tiki got hit by the Tsunami wave. If you have TV you may have seen it. It was shown on international news being hit by the wave and dumped ashore. The lashed beams held it together nicely. But, then they were installed by Gunther Nutt of Seascape in Phuket who knows how to build them...properly.

[Frosty]

So if they are not lashed by an expert they -DO- break up.

It does'nt need an expert to put nuts and bolts in. Just about every Wharram I have seen in this climate has fallen apart. My friends was rotten as a carrot and cost a lot to repair --and it still broke up.

It just seems silly to try with them, get a proper boat.

[warmat]

Frosty, are you a friend of the builder that built the Wharram that is the subject of this thread? You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder regarding Wharrams and by inference in a number of your posts you are suggesting that the boat that was wrecked in Pattaya was the fault of the design, not the builder...which it was. Are you prepared to identify yourself?

You make some silly statements. You know full well you don't have to be an 'expert' to fit the lashings to the beams on a Wharram. You just have to have some degree of common sense and follow the directions.

Then of course like any boat, maintainence is required and with the Wharram that means periodic tightening of the lashings. If you have had anything to do with boats you should know that even 316 stainless can be problematic over time if not properly maintained.

How can you infer that boat rot is a Wharram fault? Boats of all type around the world rot if they are built of poor quality timber. Agreed there are some pretty awful Wharrams around, but that is not the fault of the design, but rather the result of the builder taking short cuts, using poor quality materials or simply as we have seen on this forum not following the plans and specifications.

[Frosty]

I agree there is some damn awful Wharrams about.

In this world of boats there a thousands to choose from.

I dont find them attractive or have anything going for them, least of all the accommodation which would be ok if you are a chicken.

No protection from weather including the sun.

Sorry minimalist rubbish. Cheapest construction possible , 2 canoes tied together with string is what I see.

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Sorry minimalist rubbish. Cheapest construction possible , 2 canoes tied together with string is what I see.

There are heaps of things that Wharrams can be critiqued on, (lack of room for one) but no-one who has followed their history can doubt their seaworthyness when properly built.

To say that "nuts and bolts" are the solution is to ignore another thousand examples of stainless steel fitting of all types breaking from fatique, rust and over stress. I bet there are a lot of people on this forum (besides me) who have had a perfectly good day ruined by a fitting giving up the ghost, stainless more so than galvinised. heck - people died when their stainless steel keels broke!! Metal is no guarantee of safety in itself.

Look at it this way - every fibreglass boat is built of 'string' - string made of glass at that!

Modern ropes are even stronger than fibreglass "string", and have the advantage that they can flex under load without building up stress fractures under the pressure.

[warmat]

Frosty...who are you?

Your irrational attitude to Wharrams and your agressiveness sound exactly like the builder of Creed's boat that was wrecked and my Tiki hulls and who has been strangely quiet in recent times.

The builder thought they were great boats whilst he was receiving nice advance payments from Creed and myself but when the poor workmanship issues came to light the attitude changed.

Are you a clone of the builder? I am surprised that you are still making some of the silly comments on this forum that you make...for example, they have no shelter from the sun!! If you are so sensitive to the elements that you need shelter from the sun it is easy to make provision for it.

Maybe it should be mandatory that people on this forum should identify themselves and that would avoid people like you running off at the mouth without the brain engaged! But, on the other hand the forum might lose some of its entertainment value.

[Frosty]

I am frosty --thats all you need to know. If you look to the upper right you will see my membership date and my rep points. I am entitled to an opinion as is everyone else.

If your not familiar with the sun then let me tell you it will kill you or give you skin problems like you would'nt believe.

You obviously know very little of the tropics and ---well the weather one can endure on a boat, sorry Wharram catamaran.

How many of these pieces of crap has been lost by surf on the beach. This is what started the thread.

[sloopjb]

Frosty by name, frosty by nature. An old fart with nothing better to do but mouth off on all and sundry. Probably spends the rest of his time dispensing his wisdom(?) on Thaivisa

[sloopjb]

If you are/were thinking of a Thai boat and Frosty's comment gave you a shock:

infact if the boat is Thai registered you will now need a work permit to drive it in Thai waters.

rest assured... ( and so much for his 20? years in the los btw )


source : http://www.phuketgazette.net/issuesanswers

Thai skippers’ licences for foreigners

I am a foreigner with a Non-Immigrant O Visa. I am also married to a Thai woman. I would like to get a Thai skipper’s certificate for a boat of up to 30 tons displacement.

I don’t have a work permit. I just want to cruise around with my boat. Where do I have to go and what do I have to bring with me?
Beached Sailor, Chalong. Friday, May 14, 2004

“You must come to the Phuket Marine Office and bring with you the following:

- Your passport and a letter from a consulate or embassy of your home country verifying that the passport is genuine, accurate and valid;

- Three two-inch photos of yourself;

- A medical certificate verifying that your are fit to skipper a boat.

- If you have it, a certificate to show that you have two years’ experience or more as captain of a yacht.

- If you have an existing master’s certificate from another country, you should bring it with you for us to look at. We may be able to issue you with a Thai license without a test.

You do not need a work permit but we must be sure that you have the relevant knowledge to skipper a boat. The size of the boat is irrelevant. The license states only the function on a boat that the holder may perform – skipper or engineer for example.

If we decide that you must take a test, you should be aware that although the regulations are already available in English, the information booklet about the test is currently available only in Thai.

An English translation is being done and will be completed soon. The price of the booklet is 500 baht.

Test forms, too, are only in Thai, but you may bring a translator to the exam with you.

The Phuket Marine Office has already received authority from the Marine Department in Bangkok to issue Thai skippers’ certificates to foreigners.”
Friday, May 14, 2004 Kittipong Wasukri, Phuket Marine Office

[warmat]

Frosty...it seems that you are indeed a clone of the builder of the wrecked Wharram. Your profile is meaningless. If you were a well meaning individual and contributed to forums in a constructive way you would not have to hide behind a non de plume.

If you go to my blog you know exactly who I am and if you follow the trail back to the blog I run for my company you will know by reading some of the articles that I know quite a lot about the sun...in fact more than most because health is my business.

Don't get taken in by the misinformation about the sun handed out by sun screen manufacturers. The sun is essential for good health. Contrary to popular belief it does not cause fatal skin cancers. If can cause a type of local skin cancer which is easily dealt with, but not the deadly type which are usually on part of the body which does not even get the sun.

As a matter of fact rates of the deadly skin cancer have increased in recent years since the paranoia of sun exposure has prevented people from getting reasonable skin exposure. This is because they are not getting the healing benefits of the sun.

Fatal skin cancers are as a result of nutrient deficiencies and life style choices. It does not cause excessive wrinkling. I am 62 am hardly have a wrinkle and I have been exposed to a lot more sun than most...and I should mention Frosty that I am familiar with the tropics as for the last 40 years I have alternated my time approx 50% in New Zealand and 50% in the tropics where I am right now.

There are other places than Thailand where the sun is even more extreme due to less ozone. But, I guess you are an expert on this as well as everything else.

[david@boatsmith]

Firstly I'm biased, I think Wharram cats are cool. I'm Also Wharram's USA builder.
Wharrams designs have been built mainly by home builders, many with little in the way of boat building or sailing skills and on a budget where price was th major factor in most decisions. They have been built with recycled materials and equipment and 2nd hand rigs and sails. In spite of all of this his boats have sailed almost everywhere, many times with people with little or no experience when they started. They have earned a reputation of seaworthiness that can't be dismissed. And when they are well built and well equipped and handled by skilled sailors perform very well.
Warram's lashing system is an ingenious solution to both disassembling and to absorbing the intense shock loads that the hull to beam connections have to endure. They will never fail without warning as stainless parts are apt to do. They are inexpensive, lightweight, and very easy to inspect and replace if required. Look at where big racing multihulls fail, it's usually at the beam to hull connection. Look at old Seawinds or Stilettos and see the repairs and stress cracks here.
Finally in the looks department they either do something for you or not, that's personal. I like em. David
www.boatsmithfl.com http://tiki30.blogspot.com/

[boat fan]

Yes I agree David . I do like them too.

I do wish they had more space for accommodation.
As you get older you appreciate " elbow room " .

You need to build a BIG wharram to get it.

[masalai]

The RESPONSIBILITY is the Skippers' in the end.. Ahhh forget it - I am overtired...

[warmat]

Masalai,

What an odd post. You are suggesting that my posts are slanderous? Please elaborate in what way and how they could effectively shut down this forum.

Sloopjib was correct. You don't need a work permit to operate your own boat in Thailand. I don't recollect him saying that he wanted to charter...that of course is a whole different ball game.

[Chris Bretter]

I think that the Beam pivots tore out of the foam construction.