By way of introduction

[MattKing]

Hello to all,

First off, this is my first post on the site although I have been looking through the various, often very informative, posts on this site for a couple of months now. As a result, I have been enthused enough to venture forward with my first yacht design. This will be a collaboration project with a friend of mine but I would greatly appreciate any input the collective minds on this site could give me by way of guidance.

The design itself is going to be a trimaran or catamaran hullform. We will probably run the design of each type in unison (probably I will design the trimaran and my friend will design the catamaran although we will collaborate closely on developing the analysis tools e.g. weight spreadsheets, VPP etc) until we are at (maybe by next summer, or maybe not) a model testing stage. We will then see which of the designs is most likely to fulfill our needs and then develop it towards a construction ready design. I expect this to be a lengthy process.

The spec as it stands at the moment is a trailable 7m max length coastal cruiser. Sailable by 1 or 2 with overnight accommodation for 4 should the need arise. We want her to be fast, although we wont be constrained by any racing rules. Anyway, I will hopefully keep you posted with the progress as we go along.

There are a number of ideas we would like to explore with the design.

Firstly the use of kites. I currently envisage having a high aspect ratio main on a rotating wingmast, possible with a jib, but then deploy a kite for downwind fun. Anyone have any experience with this kind of setup?

Secondly, a couple of our ideas are, I think, quite novel. This usually means two things, either, they have been tried before and don't work, or the idea is so stupid that no-one else is even contemplating it. But just supposing we have stumbled into the rare find of a genuinely innovative idea, that actually works, then what are peoples opinion on patenting of said idea?

[longliner45]

welcome aboard ,longliner

[yipster]

Originally Posted by MattKing

what are peoples opinion on patenting of said idea?

dont know what idea you got but it better be good
patenting cost you and only stands a few yaers
use the search button above and try "patent" for more

[Chris Ostlind]

Hi Matt,

I'm of the opinion that patents for sailing products are not as powerful as one would hope they would be.

Here's the summation from my perspective...

Cost: Patents cost a hell of a lot of money when looking at start-up expenses for a boat company and its development. The reality of being able to recover those expenses through profits amortized over the life of a given product are slim. This leaves the bone chilling truth of the matter as the residue.

It takes money to enforce patents; really big money if you are a small time operator in the industry. To simply walk into a patent attorneys office and tell them you wish to engage their services to pursue a possible enfringement of your patent rights will set you back about $20K for the upfront retainer. More if you pursue the case to court. If you don't have that much liquid cash, the pursuit is over at that point unless you call writing nasty letters to an enfringer a potent strategy.

I have always felt (and still do) that your money is better spent in the R&D pursuit of the next greatest thing for sailboats (or whatever) and leave the patent stuff for the guys who work in genetic research, bio-based development and any other business where the profits are in the potential, Billions of Dollars. Otherwise, a patent is a cool thing to hang on your wall, for which you will have typically spent around $10K.

Personally, I'd rather be flying to Fiji to go surfing with a few friends for that kind of cash, but you can make your own decision on the matter.

Not to be a dork about all this, but if you guys really think you have the next coolest thing to hit the sailing indsutry and it can't be knocked-off by any of a hundred competing sources from around the planet... then by all means, go for it, big time.

You will need to patent your product in all the possible markets in which you wish to compete. For example, Europe, Asia (wherever the patent is recognized and legally enforceable, which is typically not China), Australia, South America, etc. That means that your vigilance will have to be globally supreme if you wish to keep the competition at the doorstep and not busting into your personal realm. All that translates to ever more money.

I think you can visualize just where this is all going. It's a daunting task and anyone who will tell you otherwise probably wants your cash in one way or another.

Grow your business, dig deep into your capability to develop other, more incredible possibilities for boats and say goodbye to the old developments as a method of renewing your goals and insurmountable lead in the trade.

These don't have to be staggering developments, either. Just thoughtfully incremental progressive elements that push the boundaries, ever-so-slightly, so that you are always on the front end of the think process.

Best of luck in all that you do.

Chris Ostlind
Lunada Design

[longliner45]

Chris: understand where you are coming from. My former boss Paul and his son Charles, invented the snap on lead ,leader for longline fishing boats,,,,,,,,,,,,they did not patent thier products ,they felt that if someone made a better one ,,,,let em roll. some tried ,but to a fisherman ,,,,,,,you need the best to perform. to make a long story ,short.they prevailed in the market,,,,and most importantly thier reputation remained intact,and impeccable,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,a mans reputation is more valuable than money or anything else.