Waller TC 670 or Jarcat 6?

[neomastino]

Any experience with either of these designs? I had settled on the Jarcat, but then found the Waller design. The boat will be used mostly for two people. (Wife and I). The majority of use will be day sailing on inland lakes, with some use on Lake Michigan and Lake Erie. Our desire is just quiet cruising. We won't be in a hurry, so racing type performance isn't a consideration. We will overnight on the boat occasionally. Both appear to be equally trailerable. Ease of construction is a factor, although a mionor one. We're both experienced at building cedar strip kayaks, and wooden boat maintenance and repair. Maybe a list would be easier to understand than my rambling. Looking for:

1) Trailerable
2) Relatively easy set up and launch
3) Overnight accomodation for two (One berth, not separate small berths in the hulls)
4) Ability to handle the great lakes under reasonable weather conditions
5) Small outboard for aux. power
6) Suitable for single-handed sailing
7) Ease of construction (both appear to be fairly straight-forward)

Which one & why? Other options in a trailerable cat? Thanks!

[masalai]

It appears you have made all the hard decisions so the "love it" one is left - ask your wife... If you are both undecided on only these two, go for the most visually appealing to you both - - - It is your boat and needs your love, commitment and attention...

[neomastino]

Thanks for the reply. We've been looking over photos and layouts. It looks like the Jarcat advantage is weight, as it is significantly lighter. The Waller design has a cabin layout that is more appealing to us. The cabin layout can be customized to some level. Can't say the that either is more visually appealing than the other, just different. Hopefully we can find completed boats of each design near us to look over before making a final decision.

The Waller design has the mast set forward on the cabin, the Jarcat at the rear. Does either of these designs make it more or less easy to rig at the ramp?

[masalai]

Both designs and designers have been around for some time and appear to have been proven by the test of time, I have no personal knowledge on either model... May I suggest you google each in turn to see what pops up... or email the designers explaining your cruising grounds and needs... There is a Jarkan for sale in Victoria Australia for about $6000 - - 5m trailer version on a trailer, to give you some idea... I accidently found it in one of Bob Orams http://www.boboramdesign.com.au/ links in "used catamaran google adverts" http://www.tradingpost.com.au/search...%26+Non-Power_

[catsketcher]

Hello

I have good friends who have a Waller and a 6. The Waller sails better but has a much higher CG. My friend built his out of Nomex which has made it very light. This is probably a mistake. I think the Waller would sail better than the Jarcat. The Jarcat is really designed to use the motor a fair bit and so has wide sterns. This reduces its performance in the light upwind stuff.

Jarcats can really get up an go in flat water and breeze. My mate who has one regularly hits over 10 knots in it. He also knows a lot of guys who have flipped theirs.

My mate with the Waller like the sit out seats. He doesn't sail without them.

My advice would be to change a few things about the Jarcat if you go that route. From my perspective the foils are so small as to be very little use sailing - fine under power. The boats are hard to tack. I would put proper sailboat rudders on the thing and put two proper NACA 0012 daggerboards rather than the tiny plywood things they have. As well I would put a small inner forestay from about half mast height to the cabin brow for heavier wind work. I really don't like seeing Jarcat owners sailing around with large full jibs in big winds. Do what other boats do an go to a blade when the wind gets up.

As an aside both my friends have to be prudent when the breeze blows up. The Waller sailor goes home when the sea breeze kicks in. My other mate was amazed when I let him go to leeward on my little 6 metre cat with much more beam. These boats will flip in normal sailing conditions if you are silly. I was in a race with Jarcats and monos. It was probably about 20knots and the monos (trailer sailers) weren't reefed. One Jarcat flipped. I turned up to say hello down here on Lake Macquarie and another flipped. I am probably a bad omen. They have since had two more Jarcat meetings and no one has flipped again (I think)

Chris Ostlind does a nice little cat. he is on this forum a fair bit.

cheers

Phil Thompson

[Chris Ostlind]

Thanks Phil.

You can see the article on the Gato Especial here:
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/08/...gato/index.htm

That flipping thing is worrisome and it probably is due to not reefing the sail plan as soon as one should with a trailer legal fixed structure cat. Or, do as Phil suggests and drop that full genny and go to a blade jib.

There is an answer to most of the issue for the inattentive sailor, and that is to buid the boat at a ten foot beam and be willing to pay the wide load permit fees annually... it would still be trailer legal on the highway.

A ten foot beamed version of any of the boats mentioned would be wonderfully fun to sail in a wide latitide of conditions. You may wish to ask if that build option is available from the designers.

Chris

[neomastino]

Chris and Phil, thanks for the feedback. I'm still in the decision making mode, and don't plan on starting to build until fall/winter, so there is plenty of time for research. I agree, a 10' version would be much nicer to sail. The fees don't bother me, but the local restrictions and requirements make it a real hassle. ( Lights, banners, escort vehicles, etc.) At this point we plan on sticking to a pure trailerable design. The Jarcat and Waller designs appealed to us from and ease of building standpoint. The Gato Especial looks neat. From an appearance standpoint, I definitely like it better than the other two. However, it doesn't look like plans are yet available. We've also considered folding or demountable tris/cats, but set up time, complicated build and ease of trailering seem to be obstacles. We've looked at the Woods Wizard and Sango, but it looks like the trailering might be a pain. Some of the Kurt Hughes designs look promising, but may have long set up time. Who knows, maybe a trailer sailer doesn't make sense at all, and we should just look into finding a good marina on Lake MI and build a larger Cat.

[masalai]

Better still, have a small plot at the lake to leave it on the hard on a "home-made" trailer - your lake change in retirement & a getaway cabin for now with a place to keep your boat...

[neomastino]

Chris,

I sent you an email. I'd be very interested in plans for Gato. (Even study plans would be great if the regular plans aren't ready yet) After some discussion at home, it looks like it might just fit our needs perfectly.

Jeff

[northerncat]

id go the jarcat, quicker to build, great to motor if you need to or have no wind and they sail pretty well to, id put real rudders and daggers on it though naca 12's
sean

[Arbee]

PS A couple of others you might want to put on your list.

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-22.html
http://www.foldingcats.com/

Cheers

[Arbee]

Seem to have lost my rather lengthy original reply. Have seen both boats up close and personal so my take is:

If you want a roomy cruising cat for two and want to sail most of the time, build a Waller.

If you want a multi-purpose family motor sailer that is a little easier to tow, rig and manage single handed, build a Jarcat.

Both boats will require attention at about 15 knots if built to plan and for two people I suggest a Waller with jeefy reefing, lazy jacks and a built in sail bag would be hard to beat. I've seen the boat on Mike Waller's web site up close and it is one sexy looking beast. All the dimensions feel right everywhere and the central board/rudder makes it very responsive in comparison to the Jarcat.

Happy to chat more about this, we have the same dilemma!

[neomastino]

Originally Posted by Arbee

Seem to have lost my rather lengthy original reply. Have seen both boats up close and personal so my take is:

If you want a roomy cruising cat for two and want to sail most of the time, build a Waller.

If you want a multi-purpose family motor sailer that is a little easier to tow, rig and manage single handed, build a Jarcat.

Both boats will require attention at about 15 knots if built to plan and for two people I suggest a Waller with jeefy reefing, lazy jacks and a built in sail bag would be hard to beat. I've seen the boat on Mike Waller's web site up close and it is one sexy looking beast. All the dimensions feel right everywhere and the central board/rudder makes it very responsive in comparison to the Jarcat.

Happy to chat more about this, we have the same dilemma!

Thanks for the reply. I've been away form the board for a couple of days. We are leaning towards the Waller design. Looked at some larger demountable cats ( Malcolm Tennant and Richards Woods designs) but really don't want the extra hassle of set up. A "roomy cruising cat for two" sums up our needs. Ease of towing isn't a big concern (Ok, maybe it's just relative. We currently tow a 6000 lb. cruiser behind our diesel pickup). We've kicked around the idea of a larger boat on a seasonal mooring, but like the idea of being able to travel to multiple locations. We're within a days drive of several great sailing spots and don't want to be tied to any one in particular. If we build the 670, we may dock it at the marina, but like having a boat that we can pull out and move on short notice. Thanks again. I'll check out the links that you posted.

[Arbee]

Good luck with build. While I have the utmost respect for the Jarcat we have also settled on the Waller. I'm no handyman so will probably use a professional builder for all the clever stuff. I'll also stick strictly to plan as I think many builders fail to notice that clever designers have everything "that way" for a reason.

Noticed some comments about stability earlier in the thread. While Jarcat owners note the Waller appears more tender (not surprising with narrower hulls, higher COG, more sail etc), Jarcats have flipped in events where Wallers have stayed on their feet. I suspect the extra weight and design features like the central board and rudder contribute significantly.

[Arbee]

This is a Waller builder's site. I've had communication with Norm and he loves his boat. I believe this is the one mentioned in the thread about "champagne racing". He has the boat well set up and lots of weight down low re batteries and water tank. He says he has no problem with full sail until 20 knots.

http://www.multihulldynamics.com/content.asp?c=Norm's%20Dream