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  #16  
Old 01-17-2017, 04:48 AM
cookiesa cookiesa is offline
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I like the Waller design personally, almost built one of his.... had the bigger "trailerable" cat been available at the time I would have gone that way.

if you look up Madaz on the other forum he is the guy who built the Hobart one, awesome boat and by all accounts he was very happy with it
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  #17  
Old 01-26-2017, 03:08 AM
bscatam bscatam is offline
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Waller 12

You can see actual building of Waller 12 in
DIY-Yachts

https://diy-yachts.com/forum/viewtop...a5f331fd551123

According to me Waller 12 is better design. With round bulge hulls which are strip planked.
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  #18  
Old 01-29-2017, 06:06 AM
JasonCatt JasonCatt is offline
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Thanks for the link Bscatam,
I have been following that build and have been in touch with the builder. I'm hoping to head over there some time later in the year to have a closer look.

I get that the strip planked hull is "better", however one of the things I need to try to weigh up is what better means in terms of performance trade off compared wth build time. If the strip plank hull is going to add half a knot to my cruise speed but take an extra year to build then it's not for me. I won't be in any hurry once I'm on the water, but I am in a bit of a hurry to get to the water!

To my mind at least, both the designs look similarly nice once afloat.

Looks like I'm going to go with the Waller anyway, I just can't seem to get past the lack of info or study plans on the Easy cats. I don't know how they manage to sell any! Plus, the Waller comes with the CNC cut files for all the frames, which to my mind at least makes up for the potentially slower hull build....

Anything else I should be on the look out for?
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  #19  
Old 01-29-2017, 10:03 AM
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Angélique Angélique is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCatt View Post

If the strip plank hull is going to add half a knot to my cruise speed but take an extra year to build then it's not for me.
The Waller 1200 has only strip planked bottoms, to just above the waterline, the rest is plywood, where do you see all that extra work to talk about an extra year . . ? ?
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  #20  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:46 PM
jamez jamez is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCatt View Post
If the strip plank hull is going to add half a knot to my cruise speed but take an extra year to build then it's not for me.
I wouldn't get hung up on round bilge. There are plenty of successful performance cruising designs with flat panel hulls (like Schionning, Oram etc). In fact I think you would be lucky to find anyone who could quantify the potential difference in speed related to the extra wetted surface/drag between the same size chine or round bilge hull, in any meaningful 'real world' context. Apologies for that mouthful, but in reality there are so many other variables.

The Waller and Easy ranges are both more to the cruisey end of the spectrum in terms of performance vs load carrying. I like the Waller for looks but aesthetics aside I would expect them to perform similarly. I think there are 11 meter examples of both in NZ you could probably track down to take a look at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonCatt View Post
but I am in a bit of a hurry to get to the water!
Then you should consider buying existing rather than building. Unfortunately in NZ there is not much to choose from 2nd hand. Thats why I built my tri, but that was a much smaller project (7.6 m loa) than what you are contemplating.

I see you are in Auckland; drop me a PM if you want to come for a sail and talk boat building.
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  #21  
Old 01-29-2017, 03:45 PM
JasonCatt JasonCatt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angélique View Post
The Waller 1200 has only strip planked bottoms, to just above the waterline, the rest is plywood, where do you see all that extra work to talk about an extra year . . ? ?
Hi Angelique, yes I am aware of this. That is why I said "if". I have no idea how much additional work is involved, if any, having not built a strip planked bottom before.

That is why I am here, to find out from those that know, what the differences are between the two construction methods. I'm assuming that it must be somewhat more complicated, but to what extent I do not know.
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2017, 03:57 PM
JasonCatt JasonCatt is offline
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Originally Posted by jamez View Post
Then you should consider buying existing rather than building. Unfortunately in NZ there is not much to choose from 2nd hand. Thats why I built my tri, but that was a much smaller project (7.6 m loa) than what you are contemplating.

I see you are in Auckland; drop me a PM if you want to come for a sail and talk boat building.
Thanks Jamez, I appreciate your input.
I'm definitely looking forward to the build as much as anything else, so buying used isn't for me. I just don't want to spend 6 years building one design if there's something similar out there that can be done in, say 4 years. Again, this is all a little new to me so I may be asking what might appear to be stupid questions in order to get a feel for the different styles and methods of construction.
What is becoming abundantly clear is that I'm definitely going to need to meet with some builders to chew the fat so thanks for the offer, I'll drop you a line. Cheers!
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2017, 06:42 PM
sailhand sailhand is offline
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hi JasonCatt I have been living on a catamaran for the last 13 years and have been involved in a fair bit of building designing etc. you can fit what I know about boats on the head of a pin but the only thing I do know is that a ply boat is really really cheap to buy compared to a foam boat, were talking tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. A flat panel multichine boat has many many advantages over round bilge. daggerboards for cruising the whole minikeel thing just doesnt make sense to me. kick up rudders are great. two days ago I met a guy who is twelve years into his schionning twelve metre build. he pays a thousand a month shed rent, you work it out. the design fee and the materials cost are the smallest cost in terms of the overall build and have the biggest impact on the sale price/value of the boat. go with a good designer and pay a decent fee and do foam. if you end up allergic to epoxy with a ply build your in a world of pain and I know plenty that have ended up there. with foam you change resin systems and keep going. check the prices for a second hand easy they are as cheap as chips in aus and there aint nothin easy about building an easy dont be fooled by the name. a flat panel multichine kit is about the fastest build method I have seen. 3.5 weeks from nothing to two hulls antifouled and faired under the bridgedeck faired hulls and bridgedeck joined and most bulkheads in, now that is easy!!!!!!! also rocker in the hulls is the enemy flatter is better/faster with less hobby horseing go with a fair bit of stem in the water 6 inches is good and a flat run aft with transoms slightly submerged. better tracking and motion in a seaway, less noise at anchor, less draft, all round great
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  #24  
Old 01-29-2017, 06:58 PM
JasonCatt JasonCatt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailhand View Post
hi JasonCatt I have been living on a catamaran for the last 13 years and have been involved in a fair bit of building designing etc. you can fit what I know about boats on the head of a pin but the only thing I do know is that a ply boat is really really cheap to buy compared to a foam boat, were talking tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands. A flat panel multichine boat has many many advantages over round bilge. daggerboards for cruising the whole minikeel thing just doesnt make sense to me. kick up rudders are great. two days ago I met a guy who is twelve years into his schionning twelve metre build. he pays a thousand a month shed rent, you work it out. the design fee and the materials cost are the smallest cost in terms of the overall build and have the biggest impact on the sale price/value of the boat. go with a good designer and pay a decent fee and do foam. if you end up allergic to epoxy with a ply build your in a world of pain and I know plenty that have ended up there. with foam you change resin systems and keep going. check the prices for a second hand easy they are as cheap as chips in aus and there aint nothin easy about building an easy dont be fooled by the name. a flat panel multichine kit is about the fastest build method I have seen. 3.5 weeks from nothing to two hulls antifouled and faired under the bridgedeck faired hulls and bridgedeck joined and most bulkheads in, now that is easy!!!!!!! also rocker in the hulls is the enemy flatter is better/faster with less hobby horseing go with a fair bit of stem in the water 6 inches is good and a flat run aft with transoms slightly submerged. better tracking and motion in a seaway, less noise at anchor, less draft, all round great
Thanks Sailhand,
Yes, I'd definitely like to avoid spending 12 years building! My problem is I love building with wood - plus I'm not too worried about resale value since I'll only be selling when they cart me away haha.
I'm also limited to putting in about $50k for the first year, and the rest spread across the rest of the build. That excludes the more exotic kits, some of which I've seen up to $170k in one lump sum. That's not for me!
Can you tell me more about the flat panel multi chine kit? What design is that?Sounds interesting, although also sounds like it could be very expensive.
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  #25  
Old 01-29-2017, 08:21 PM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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Jason, strip planking can be done in the painstaking one strip at a time canoe method or a rapid boat builder method. The rest is ply and the key to its longevity is being pedantic about sealing everything particularly when screwing in fittings, oversize holes then epoxy filler. Silicone doesn't cut it.
If it was me I'd build a table from formica covered mdf, infuse flat panels with foam and vinyl ester and use my wood working skills on a nice wrc or paulownia fit out.
The materials cost won't even come close to the kit cost.
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  #26  
Old 01-29-2017, 08:32 PM
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Angélique Angélique is offline
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WEST System: EPOXYWORKS Number 32, Spring 2011 -- Strip Planking PDF
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  #27  
Old 01-29-2017, 08:39 PM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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Sloooooooooow
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  #28  
Old 01-29-2017, 09:01 PM
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Angélique Angélique is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redreuben View Post

. . . . strip planking can be done in the painstaking one strip at a time canoe method or a rapid boat builder method . . . .
Meaning Tongued & Grooved like here PDF ---> on the bottom of the page ---> the ‘‘RAPID STRIP’’ picture . . . ? ?

- BoatDesign.net thread: Speed Strip tongue-and-groove strip planking

- Wooden Boat Forum thread: Planking: Bead & Cove, Rapid Strip, Other ?
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  #29  
Old 01-30-2017, 02:44 AM
redreuben redreuben is offline
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Bead strip and tongue and groove are expensive to buy, have to go on one at a time, painfully slow.... and you can't spile the planks at the ends.
Where the bilge is curved square cut planks leave a large enough "V" between them to screed in adhesive, where the sides of the boat are flat you cut the planks with a bevel so there is a "V" to screed into.
Put up temporary frames, cover edges with packaging tape, nail planks on with double headed nails, plank the whole hull, short planks, smiles etc can be held in place with thin ply strips and a staple gun, screed with adhesive, remove nails, long plane hull, coarse sand hull, resin coat, glass, fair, paint, turn over.
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2017, 12:35 PM
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Angélique Angélique is offline
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Thanks for the info Redreuben
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