Veal Heel for Multihull Foilers

[waynemarlow]

Guys, Doug's lack of drawing skills shouldn't have anything to do with a discussion on boat design. Perhaps ask politely to clarify a drawing but never just diss a poster for the sake of dissing someone.

In my view and I think many others who have become very disillusioned with the pettiness ( in my view almost childish bullying ) so totally off thread, I'm asking politely that if you cannot contribute in an informed way then don't bother.

Chris you are a very well informed boat designer, why not contribute with ideas and informed discussion, if foiling isn't your thing then move on to better more interesting pastures.

[Chris Ostlind]

Originally Posted by waynemarlow

Guys, Doug's lack of drawing skills shouldn't have anything to do with a discussion on boat design. Perhaps ask politely to clarify a drawing but never just diss a poster for the sake of dissing someone.

Drawing skills most certainly do have something to do with boat design. They have been the central medium for communication from designer to builder ever since man with a hammer moved away from "Yeah, that looks about right". Accurate drawings are at the core of performing accurate calculations. The entry of accurate numerical values on the drawings is essential if one is to be able to fully understand the relationships as designed. That an individual purports himself or herself as a designer and can not properly represent themselves with decently presented drawings is not only weak, but it is potentially dangerous.

Wayne, this stuff is pounded into the heads of every young person who goes through any sort of design school and it sits at the center of one's ability to convey one's conceptual ideas. I don't know where you get this kooky idea that well done drawings are not essential, but it is as wrong as it can be.

There are other arguments associated with this topic, but I'll leave them alone for the time being.

Originally Posted by waynemarlow

In my view and I think many others who have become very disillusioned with the pettiness ( in my view almost childish bullying ) so totally off thread, I'm asking politely that if you cannot contribute in an informed way then don't bother.

Consider for a moment, then, that your adherence to the material put forth by your guru also represents a childish willingness to play follow the leader. Simply because Doug talks a good line about this material does not mean he knows of what he speaks. Ask him to show you the proof of concept photos showing his most accomplished full-sized foiler as it lifts-off from the surface and flies, under control, for several hundred meters. Go ahead, ask him.

Truth is he will not do so, because he can not do so. The imagery does not exist because the event never took place. Yet, here you guys are, traipsing around behind the guy as if he has it in the bag and there is so much to learn from his guidance. Hey, do you guys want to buy some shares in my elaborate pyramid scheme? You know, the one that enriches me and leaves you destitute and shaking your heads?

Originally Posted by waynemarlow

Chris you are a very well informed boat designer, why not contribute with ideas and informed discussion, if foiling isn't your thing then move on to better more interesting pastures.

Wayne, this is where your lack of knowledge about what has gone down on this Forum for more than five years shows itself in spades. Way back when Douglas first proposed his idea of a "People's Foiler", which has now shown itself to be but one of many non-realistic endeavors in the genre, I offered-up many, many ideas and solutions to issues that were present and being ignored by Doug. I genuinely looked to find a solution to the proposal, such as it was. I was joined by a few other very bright guys, who used to participate on this list and they, also, offered their take on many of the design solutions that begged to be addressed.

Doug's response...? To belittle, berate and rudely ignore that which was so obvious that it amounted to a bleeding child left in the street while wonder boy twiddled around with more complicated additions that took the concept far away from its intended goals.

I don't care if Doug is a doofus of grand proportions. It's his life. What I do care about is the fact that he routinely lumps persons from the foiling and general boat design field in some arbitrary bag of disregard. He's personally and rudely offended at least five World Champions in various classes of sailing and dumped on as many well-known designers of highly regarded and actively sailed craft. He has completely ignored, as well as aggressively attacked, the offerings of other extremely seasoned sailors with vast levels of experience in areas of which he has not one drop of knowledge.

In short, Wayne, the man is well off the scale when it comes to a person with decent and respectful interactive skills. He has made the bed in which he resides on these Fora and it is evidenced by having been abruptly and unceremoniously kicked out of Forums on several occasions. One does not get banned for being a good Forum citizen, Wayne.

Over on Sailing Anarchy, he's presently physically threatening the current Moth World Champion, as well as a journalist, simply because they said they'd like to drop by his home when next in Florida so that they could take a look at his so-called work in progress. A work, mind you, that he has hoisted as the next coming of Jesus for the foiling community. I've had offlist conversations with the editor/owner of the Sailing Anarchy site and Doug is sitting at the precipice of being permanently banned from that group, as well.

Now, what do you suppose that is all about?... the process of being banned from the most liberal, tolerant and free-swinging sailing Forum on the Internet?

I invite you to get a grip on how you interpret the behavior of your fellow members and do some homework on the topic before you start in with the "childish" commentary.

[ancient kayaker]

Drawing is a communication medium and lack of skills inhibit efficient communication. Doug’s word skills certainly exceed his drawings skills by a large margin. I don't want to make any personal comments other than that. There are too many words by far on this thread for the amount of information conveyed, so I will keep my comments short.

[waynemarlow]

Chris. So far today you have spent probably in excess of 3 hours writing on this particular Thread. How much do you charge clients for your time, now equate in dollars how much those 3 hours have cost you.

And for what, to try an belittle some verbose enthusiast of foiling. For the rest of the forum members you have offfered absolutely zilch, nothing of value to look at and disect, just the ramblings of some self appointed zealot.

You would have thought now after 5 years you would have learnt to discuss only the important issues and chill out on the rest.

By the way link me into SA on a foiling thread ( I can't really find any worthy of the read ) as I reckon I could tie up the rest of your day.

[Paul B]

Originally Posted by ancient kayaker

Doug’s word skills certainly exceed his drawings skills by a large margin.

I find both of The Lord's skill sets to be about equal.

[Doug Lord]

My sketch was just that -a sketch- quick illustration to give a basic idea of the concept. The only error that I am aware of is the labeling of the angles-which I correct each time I post it.Perhaps I should have done a full width illustration. The representation of the angles is correct as is the foil submergence etc. The concept, as I have described it, is correctly illustrated in the sketch for one half the boat......If you see something you think is in error please point it out to me.