Tacking a trimaran vs tacking a proa

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by smallyachtsailr

..... although I'm focusing on another multihull. I've sailed hobies and was very underwhelmed by their tacking abilities. So catamarans are out. ...

Whoa - you cant tack a Hobie so you assume all Cats are bad tackers ????

You better try out some 'real' cats ( Tornado's, Mosquitoes even Paper Tigers etc) and get rid of this fiction from your mind.

[oldsailor7]

In 1979 I had a Crowther"International 23" catamaran-------and it tacked fast, like a homing angel.

[smallyachtsailr]

I presume part of the reason Hobies tack so poorly is because of their asymmetric amas. Cats with less sharp ama hulls and daggerboards ought to do much better--such as the AC45s I saw recently in Newport.

I like Chris White's 20-footer trimaran--thanks...I found some pics on his website. It's much like what I'm drawing up already, although mine is significantly smaller (and lighter). With the help of all your discussions, and info I'm gleaning from elsewhere, I'm leaning back toward my original idea of a lightweight trimaran. A take-apart with a 14' main hull. Meant for 1 or 2 crew. Based on my existing one-person tri (total weight ~ 70 lbs), I think I can hit the following weights:

50-60 lb main hull (including C/B and rudder)
20 lb amas
20 lbs for two crossbeams
25-30 lbs for the rig
20 lbs for hiking seats (maybe save this by using netting)

Total ~ 150-170 lbs, and I'm pretty certain this is generous. With this light weight I'm planning for around 100 sq. ft of sail--for a boat midway in performance between a daysailer and racer.

So even compared to Chris White's 20-footer, this will be significantly lighter. I think his is 400-500 lbs all up.

I'm tempted to try a proa (excuse me...outrigger) some time, maybe I'll make a conversion for the tri. But for now I think I'll stick with the trimaran plan. I appreciate all the advice--handy to know what others think on all this.

[oldsailor7]

" A take-apart with a 14' main hull. "

Why a take apart.? it will be heavier than a "One Piece"

8' beam is more than adequate and you can car top it. legal on the roads too.

Piver Frolic at 16' had 8' beam. With a self tacking jib and single jib sheet it was a scorcher. Plans are still available.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by oldsailor7

" A take-apart with a 14' main hull. "

Why a take apart.? it will be heavier than a "One Piece"

8' beam is more than adequate and you can car top it. legal on the roads too.

Piver Frolic at 16' had 8' beam. With a self tacking jib and single jib sheet it was a scorcher. Plans are still available.

===============
Paddy, any idea how long and how wide the amas are on the Frolic and how much SA?

[oldsailor7]

Yes Doug.
Piver Frolic.
LOA 16'
Total beam 8'
SA 132 sq ft (Main 102 sq ft Jib 28 sq ft) tacking boom jib, with single sheet.
Amas 11' 6" section rect. 1ft x 1ft. Shaped like water skis.
Vaka 16'x2' 90deg V bottom , vertical sides.
Akas 2"x4" solid fir wood beams, tapered toward the tips.
Decks 1/4" ply.
Single daggerboard in Vaka. (Mine had two fixed fins on outboard side of amas)
Hope this helps.

[Doug Lord]

Originally Posted by oldsailor7

Yes Doug.
Piver Frolic.
LOA 16'
Total beam 8'
SA 132 sq ft (Main 102 sq ft Jib 28 sq ft) tacking boom jib, with single sheet.
Amas 11' 6" section rect. 1ft x 1ft. Shaped like water skis.
Vaka 16'x2' 90deg V bottom , vertical sides.
Akas 2"x4" solid fir wood beams, tapered toward the tips.
Decks 1/4" ply.
Single daggerboard in Vaka. (Mine had two fixed fins on outboard side of amas)
Hope this helps.

=========
Thanks, Paddy!

[Doug Halsey]

Originally Posted by Doug Lord...
PS-Foils these days are made of carbon fiber/epoxy.

Unless, of course they're V-Foils. Broomstick's foils are all wood/glass/epoxy.

[smallyachtsailr]

Originally Posted by oldsailor7

" A take-apart with a 14' main hull. "

Why a take apart.? it will be heavier than a "One Piece"

8' beam is more than adequate and you can car top it. legal on the roads too.

Piver Frolic at 16' had 8' beam. With a self tacking jib and single jib sheet it was a scorcher. Plans are still available.

Why a take-apart 14-footer? Simply because I have a slipped disk in my back--don't want to (can't!) lift more than about 50 lbs onto the top of a car.

I like the foiler Broomstick.

[Milan]

If you are interested in the small proas and outrigger sailing canoes, there are a few dedicated sites with a tons of info:

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/
http://outriggersailingcanoes.blogspot.nl/
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...nd-proa-thread
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proa_file/

[edvb]

I have been tweaking my Raptor for years and it is a blast to sail. It tacks great and is pretty quick. You just cannot beat the 5 minute or less launch time. Too bad the are not made anymore but I sure the hell am keeping mine!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHR7mg5LBz0

[rwatson]

Originally Posted by smallyachtsailr

Why a take-apart 14-footer? Simply because I have a slipped disk in my back--don't want to (can't!) lift more than about 50 lbs onto the top of a car.

I like the foiler Broomstick.

Based on my experience, make sure you keep the fastening system and the main components really simple and non-fiddly. The setup times increase exponentially for every stupid little bit of stainless steel that needs to be inserted into that elusive hole.

I think that with a bit of thought, the whole structure could be as simple as a lightweight frame (trampolines attached) that just drops down onto the three hulls, and is held fast with strategically placed ropes.

[Corley]

On the supernova trimaran I have the one piece trampoline has metal moulded stubs with a groove cut in them that sit through a base on the hulls and are held in place by a simple stainless steel plate with a hole cutout large enough to sit over the stud to fit in position then they taper back to a narrow section which mates with the groove in the stub the plates are held in position by a shockcord. It looks pretty arbitrary but it works it also has the benefit of spreading the loading over a larger area which is good. To improve the system I glued a rubber grommet over the top end of the stub makes the fit a bit tighter and stops the float hull when unloaded working around on the tramp.

[harrygee]

Hi. You seem to have made the right decision. Stick with a tri.
When tacking, mono, cat, tri, the bow comes through the wind and goes to windward.
Proas, in shunting, fall off the wind before reversing direction.
In your situation, tacking will be a better option.
I'm no proa expert but I've sailed proas with windward and leeward amas and they all lost ground in shunting.
My own 27' tri is a converted Soling (Olympic class mono keel-boat with excellent handling) and it's the fastest-spinning boat I've sailed, considerably quicker than the standard Soling.
Good luck with it.
Harry